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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Oct 29, 2008 12:22:35 GMT
Two people aren't happy with the Institute in Limerick.
But the first First Communions in the EF were given in Limerick by Father Lebocq earlier in the summer.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Nov 25, 2008 11:59:19 GMT
Is it true Mgr Schmitz was back in Limerick again last week?
He was in High St in Dublin over a year ago - pretty impressive guy.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 25, 2008 17:54:52 GMT
Bishop Newman was a tragic figure, afflicted in his last years by isolation and a drink problem. He had a heavy cross to carry and some of his own subordinates were disloyal to him (see Tom Dunne's memoir REBELLIONS for a hostile account of his unavailing attempts to check the self-secularisation of Mary Immaculate College). I am currently reading Barry Desmond's memoir (published 2000), which sneers at the predictions of Bishop Newman and others that the legalisation of contraception would lead to moral collapse. These predictions werre quite prescient, the trouble is that the popular perception of morality has changed so much that moral collapse isn't recognised for what it is. Somebody should do an assessment of Bishop Newman's writings - I think they have the limitations of a lot of Catholic social thought of their era in that they fail to combine their statement of Catholic principles with empirical observation in discussing how they might be put into practice in society as it exists. But he carried a heavy cross and spoke out when so many shepherds were silent. Pray for him.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Nov 26, 2008 11:56:29 GMT
Hibernicus,
I can remember hearing that Newman was perceived as a radical academic in Maynooth, where he held the chair of what was then called 'Sociology and Catholic Action'. Another story I heard was that he spent some time living in a hippie commune in California as field research - this might be a tall story. It is more credible to believe, as it was asserted to me, that he was active in re-opening Maynooth to laymen (who had studied in Maynooth between 1796 and 1819: not a lot of people know that) and allowing women in for the first time in 1966. He succeeded Mgr Patrick Corish as president of Maynooth in 1968 after Corish had a nervous breakdown. The whole point here is that Corish and Newman became presidents in order to side-step Mgr Francis Cremin who was seen as a radical traditionalist at the time.
When Mgr Newman became Bishop of Limerick, there was another story and like Hibernicus says he was one of the few Irish bishops to speak out on socio-moral issues and given he was one of the most vocal opponents of the Family Planning (Amendment) Act 1985, of which Barry Desmond speaks so condescendingly now - the former minister is in denial about the consequences of his legislation (and flouting of the law prior to the passing of the amendment).
Bishop Newman's final years were marked by local controversies and were a bit of a caricature and Catholicism in Limerick seems a pale reflection of what it was until quite recently. One hopes that the Franciscans of the Renewal and the Institute of Christ the King will have a good effect on the city and diocese of Limerick.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 26, 2008 14:54:51 GMT
The Brandsma has published quite a bit on Mgr Cremin over the years, and how he was ostracised for defending orthodoxy. Ironically, he was the theologian who advised Noel Browne in relation to the Mother and child scheme in 1950-1; according to John Horgan's life of Browne, Cremin held that since the bishops had not protested against the implementation of the NHS in Northern Ireland they could hardly say that a similar scheme in the Republic was contrary to faith and morals. Now THERE was something which the Bishops sadly mishandled, and in retrospect we can say it began the rot; they cried wolf when there was no wolf and were caught out when the wolf really came. I don't think Desmond is in denial about the consequences of his measure; rather he absolutely refuses to admit that there is anything to be said against those consequences or that anyone has the right to advocate restraint. His view may be summed up as that if someone wishes to pick up a different stranger every night that is a self-evident and indefeasible freedom, that no-one is entitled to disapprove of such behaviour or point to its consequences and that it is outrageous tyranny for society as a whole or private individuals (e.g. pharmacists with conscientious convictions) to obstruct it in any way whatsoever. Interesting from a Labour member, a PD advocating such views would be more consistent. Maybe we should start a separate thread on Catholic social teaching?
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Nov 26, 2008 15:22:22 GMT
Yes - we probably need a separate thread for Catholic Social Teaching. But have you heard the Maynooth saying in regard to Mgr Corish'es presidency: Corish cracked up where Cremin would have cracked down.
It is still amazing to think the ultra-conservative Frank Cremin was associated with Noel Browne. But...Browne's private secretary and close supporter, the late Charles O'Connor was a regular attender at the SSPX Mass in Mounttown until one of the Pixie priests reprimanded him on some pretext and then Mr O'Connor attended St Audoen's in High Street until he died.
I knew Mr O'Connor (or Professor O'Connor - he taught law in university in Botswana; he was, like Noel Browne, a TB sufferer and he spent a lot of his life in Africa for health reasons) - a very nice man.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Nov 27, 2008 12:33:24 GMT
To get somehow back on track a propos of this thread, Mgr Cremin was a Kerry priest and expected to succeed as Mgr Moynihan as Bishop of Kerry in 1969. Cardinal Conway had other ideas, and fought with the Congregation of Bishops for years to get his candidate, a priest of the Limerick Diocese named Father Éamonn Casey appointed instead. Father Casey was working among Irish emigrants in Britain at the time. I will pass no further comment.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Nov 27, 2008 16:37:09 GMT
The Institute Mass in Limerick will be on the Third Sunday of the month from now.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Dec 5, 2008 11:11:59 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 25, 2009 10:02:37 GMT
I hate to disappoint the two people who voted against the Institute coming to Limerick as the Insitute are there to stay. Expect them to beef up their Limerick apostolate through 2009.
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Post by cpm on Mar 15, 2009 21:39:03 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Mar 16, 2009 0:56:59 GMT
Wow....apparently they have been erected canonically in that diocese a month or so ago. Amazingly an Irish Bishop has a trad order officialy in his diocese...it must be a first-its not on the same footing as the FSSP over in Newbridge...that'll probably stop soon-not enough goin to it.
Je vais á mon bananier!!! ;D
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Post by guillaume on Mar 16, 2009 6:59:39 GMT
That's good. But a mass once a month.... sounds a bit frustrating when they seem to have a good numbers of faithful, a Gregorian schola, etc.... It is also VERY good, that AT LEAST, young Irish lads "called" to the Service of our Lord in a trad way, would have an opportunity to meet somebody, as they seem to be focused in encouraging it. God May help them.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 23, 2009 13:09:42 GMT
At present, the Institute of Christ the King can only spare Father Lebocq once a month, though he also said Mass on St Patrick's Day this year. Occasionally, Mgr Séamus Horgan, a Killaloe priest (from Ennis) is home from the Apostolic Nunciature in Berne where he is base and he says Mass in Limerick (like yesterday, for example).
In September, the Institute expect to be in a position to send a second priest over also once a month allowing Mass occur on two Sundays a month. Eventually, they will be in a position to send a priest over permanently, but that is not likely to happen for another year. However, when it does, we are likely to see Masses in Ennis, Galway and other places as well as in Limerick City.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 30, 2009 13:30:23 GMT
I hear Father John Mockler, curate in the parish of Shanagolden-Foynes-Robertstown, has taken to saying the EF Mass in his parish. This means something is happening on a modest basis in West Limerick, but something is always an improvement on nothing.
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