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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 21:44:38 GMT
On Our Lady's birthday. Nice. Perhaps we should offer up our Holy Communion for them on that day, I'm not even being sarcastic. Also, I wonder if the same web designer worked on the Sister of Charity website. It's a masonic software conspiracy! ;D we-are-church-ireland.org/www.rsccaritas.ie/
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Sept 6, 2012 9:45:54 GMT
Exorcisms in Limerick are not a joke - I've heard a lot anectdotally about them and I know one of the diocesan priests who carries them out - I will not name him for obvious reasons. Bishop Murray took this dimension very seriously, which was a surprise to me.
I have to say I was in the Jesuit Church in Limerick on a few occasions and I never found it particularly beautiful. I wonder if the ICRSS have planning permission to turn it into a neo-baroque number? I suspect the SJs already took out St Ignatius and sold him as a separate lot.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 6, 2012 10:35:57 GMT
The photos of the deserted church available online show wall-paintings of St Ignatius and other Jesuit saints on the wall of the sanctuary. OK, my remark about exorcism was in poor taste, but Brendan Butler is one of the media go-to types whenever they are looking for "liberal Catholic" rentaquotes, and as such he and his pals do a lot of harm.
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Post by loughcrew on Sept 6, 2012 11:08:28 GMT
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 6, 2012 13:55:47 GMT
I wonder how many people he has? BTW, who is Brendan Butler? Ex-priest, religious or seminarian? Any info about the man himself?
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 6, 2012 23:01:54 GMT
He lives in North County Dublin and he has been around for awhile - he was holding forth on Liberation Theology in the 80s. There is a Brendan Butler who works for one of the employers' organisations, but I'm not sure if he is the same one. Keep you eye on the IRISH TIMES letters page, or the ACPI website, long enough, and an Epistle from Brendan Butler is sure to come bobbing along. His group may be small in itself, but it seems to network effectively with the ACPI, Sean O Conaill's Derry-based Voice of the Faithful Ireland, and similar groups, and the IRISH TIMES finds them all useful rentaquote sources. I wish more trads and conservative Catholics would keep an eye on these groups to work out what makes them tick and how to counter them, instead of playing Hunt-the-Mason.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Sept 7, 2012 9:45:50 GMT
Well this is a start.
To be honest many trads prefer fun and games to hard work and grossly exaggerate the importance of the trad movement in the Church. And they don't thank people who puncture their illusory balloons.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 8, 2012 18:11:19 GMT
The We Are Church Brendan Butler can be seen in the photo attached to this story www.cinews.ie/article.php?artid=10071 He is not the Brendan Butler who works for the employers' group IBEC- his photo is quite different BTW Google "Brendan Butler We Are Church" and you will soon see just how often he and his group supply rentaquotes when RTE and suchlike want a "Trouble Down at t'Basilica" story.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 12, 2012 22:46:54 GMT
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Apr 19, 2013 9:50:12 GMT
I hear Father Wulfran Lebocq of the Institute of Christ the King concelebrated at Bishop Leahy's episcopal ordination Mass on Sunday (14 April in St John's Cathedral, Limerick). I don't think the trad purists will be happy to learn that at all.
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Post by rogerbuck on Apr 22, 2013 18:49:50 GMT
I hear Father Wulfran Lebocq of the Institute of Christ the King concelebrated at Bishop Leahy's episcopal ordination Mass on Sunday (14 April in St John's Cathedral, Limerick). I don't think the trad purists will be happy to learn that at all. There are many things about ICKSP that don't make "trad purists" happy. But ICKSP is far more concerned with obedience to the hierarchy than making such happy.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 23, 2013 7:58:20 GMT
There was an element of going over what might have been required here - another priest, not a "traditionalist" simply sat in choir and didn't concelebrate at the same clergy.
What's going on here might be recognition that the Institute have neither the money nor fund raising capacity to restore (and maintain) the former Jesuit church and house and they are looking from some support from the diocese.
A lot of outsiders thought the acquisition of the Jesuit church was an impossible dream. It is true that all things are possible for God, but in Ireland two miracles are needed. One in Limerick if the ICRSS apostolate is to continue and another in Meath, if the Benedictine foundation in Stamullen is to flourish. Neither are in immediate danger now, but the current situation is not sustainable indefinitely.
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Post by rogerbuck on Apr 23, 2013 10:12:26 GMT
There was an element of going over what might have been required here - another priest, not a "traditionalist" simply sat in choir and didn't concelebrate at the same clergy. What's going on here ... might be recognition that the Institute have neither the money nor fund raising capacity to restore (and maintain) the former Jesuit church Alaisdir, I may be a bit dense, but your first sentence isn't quite clear to me. I would appreciate clarification. However, allowing for the fact that I may not have quite understood you, I think the real issue here may be how very strongly ICRSS believe in obedience to Rome. I know the Institute quite well from having lived near them in Madrid and Liverpool and this I can tell you is a very key part of the philosophy of the Institute: faithfulness to the hierarchy, including the local bishop. It is here where ICRSS very clearly distinguish themselves from many traditionalists. For them, being obedient is a sine qua non of Catholic Tradition. This is also I think a very important topic for discussion and I would like to hear people's' views on it here at this forum. And again, Alaisdir if you don't mind clarifying for me your first sentence above, I'd be grateful.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 23, 2013 11:26:55 GMT
Simply, Roger, I believe that Father Lebocq went over and above what was required of him. It would have been sufficient for him to have sat in choir without concelebrating.
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Post by rogerbuck on Apr 23, 2013 18:41:31 GMT
Thank you for this clarification, Alaisdir. Your point is taken. Without at all disputing this, long observation of the ICRSS has led me to think of it as the opposite extreme to the SSPX. When Monsignor Wach opened the church near Liverpool, he was quoting Lumen Gentium in his speech and many "trad purists" as you put it above would think he was going far out of his way in deference to the local bishop. I have been struggling with the issues here for years: seeing the SSPX on the right, as it were, of traditionalism and ICRSS on the left. Somewhere along the line, I realised how very much the ICRSS owed to Cardinal Siri and how Siri and Lefebvre can be seen as representing very different approaches to the modern crisis. There is a story I have heard ... it may be apocryphal ... but it helps me understand. According to the story, Siri begged Lefebvre not to go the route of disobedience. Again no idea how true the story is. But it may not matter. For me it is like a symbol of two different approaches to the crisis: Siri/ICRSS vs. Lefebvre/SSPX. As my struggle has gone on over the last years, I have become ever more convinced of the first approach. For while I am very grateful in many ways to Lefebvre, the problem with "trad purists" is that a road is taken and the road leads somewhere. Where it leads to has been tragically illustrated by Hibernicus recently in a different thread: This appalls me, and I think you and Hibernicus may feel similarly. And so I have come to appreciate ICRSS ever more deeply. Which hardly means to say of course that they are perfect and free from all kinds of human errors!
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