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Post by Young Ireland on Nov 8, 2019 19:04:38 GMT
To be honest, Maolsheachlann, I don't think you are doing yourself or your literary career any favours by continuing to write for a website whose editor has endorsed scientific racism. |
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Post by maolsheachlann on Nov 9, 2019 13:38:48 GMT
To be honest, Maolsheachlann, I don't think you are doing yourself or your literary career any favours by continuing to write for a website whose editor has endorsed scientific racism. My answer to that is threefold: 1) I don't think the Burkean endorses scientific racism. You are probably referring to this article and this article. I link so anyone can read them and see for themselves whether they are endorsing scientific racism, or whether they are simply asking questions and calling for freedom of thought and speech. Besides, these are only two articles in a magazine that publishes a whole spectrum of conservative opinions. 2) I don't really think I'm taking any risk in writing for the Burkean, but, even if I was, wouldn't it be cowardly to be intimidated by political correctness? On the contrary, we should all be pushing against it as much as possible. Imagine if George Orwell or Alexander Solzhenitsyn had thought like that. I don't have delusion of grandeur in taking those as comparisons, I'm simply saying that-- in my own very small way-- I believe it's my duty to fight globalization and seek to preserve Ireland's nationhood. Indeed, I think it's every patriot's duty to defend their culture against globalization. Think of how much previous generations of Irish people sacrificed for the same thing-- often freedom and life itself. 3) If you read the article, you will see that I am explicitly arguing for nationalism in the tradition of Pearse and De Valera, and arguing against an Alt Right or identitarian or racialist brand of nationalism. Where better than to do that in a magazine like the Burkean, some of whose readership would be in danger of going that way? What's the point of preaching to the converted? I'm well aware that many Irish people, disgusted by PC and globalism, are in danger of swinging to the extreme right. I am trying to do my small part to dissuade them from that. |
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Post by renatamaria on Jan 5, 2020 23:17:17 GMT
Hi there, I’m new here but I found this thread very interesting as a Brazilian Roman Catholic living in Ireland for 5 years and married to an Irish fellow.
I have some insights about the subject... I thought I might share it.
Firstly as somebody that comes from a highly multicultural country I can tell you that it makes me sad to watch Ireland losing its Irishness. Dublin has became a version of just any other metropolitan city full of people from everywhere but Ireland. It gives you a taste of what is to become a community without shared core values. Having said that, my point is that the biggest problem with the amount of multiculturalism in Ireland is that you are not taking in just people that share your core values, but lots of people that think and behave precisely in the in opposite way. Integration is nearly impossible and it shows by the mini guetos that are being created in Dublin.
Secondly, I would like to address what the Burken articles say. I agree in many aspects that we are clearly not born equal. There’s a theory that refers to some
Homo sapiens having neandertal genetic material and that might be one of the main reasons for some societies being more developed than others. There is also the obvious climate impact, colder countries seem to have built more cooperative and creative societies as those were crucial treats to the survival of its members. This is also a big part of “culture” built, loads of practices and ways of thinking comes from what kind of weather you have to deal with on daily/yearly basis. And sure there’s the historical background of societies: conflicts, natural events, ideologies, spiritual believes and moral codes that come with it. When you take it all and try to make broad affirmations about what makes some countries greater than others it’s hard to come to statements that will fit all the possible combinations of the elements that I talked about before. On the other hand, if you exam society one by one I’m pretty sure you can trace back what is that combination of elements that make that particular country the way it is. My point then is that if you look to Ireland considering all those elements you can find what is that that makes the country great and what aspects of other cultures could make it not great anymore. That brings me to my last point.
I’m firmly convinced that considering all elements that makes Ireland the amazing country that it is, there’s only one thing that at this point of History can undermine it, and it is the abandonment of Christian values. As soon as those are gone most of Irishness will be gone. I come from a different culture but I can guarantee you that my core values are very similar than Irish ones, because our values come from Christ. Because I have the same values than you have it is just natural that I completely integrate into your society - and although I might do somethings differently because my people evolved in different circumstances, those differences can’t never undermine your national identity. Maybe I grew up not drinking tea because my country was too hot, but I grew up forgiving people’s trespassing and God forgives mine.
In a highly technological and globalised world, where we are going to learn with each other new ways to do things, what will be “identity” if not our shared values?
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Post by maolsheachlann on Jan 6, 2020 9:30:54 GMT
In a highly technological and globalised world, where we are going to learn with each other new ways to do things, what will be “identity” if not our shared values? Thanks for your contribution, renatamaria. Good to hear your perspective. My problem with your statement above is that values do not DIFFERENTIATE cultures from one another, necessarily, so they can't create identity. I would like every country in the world to have a Catholic ethos, but that would not give each country a distinct identity. Culture and traditions create identity, not values. I do think it's important to make a conceptual distinction between religion and nationality. I absolutely wish every man, woman and child in Ireland was Catholic. But the only reason to be a Catholic is because you believe it is true, and you can't ask someone to be Catholic against their conscience, for the sake of a culture or traditions or national identity. Another problem is that Ireland doesn't really HAVE a national identity or a national culture-- there is next to no difference between us and the UK. In the late nineteenth century, we made an effort to revive (and partly invent) a national culture. It only achieved a limited success. We can't really resume this project in a multicultural Ireland. It is not Christianity which is distinctively Irish, but Irish culture-- the Irish language, Irish sport, Irish dance, Irish literature, and so forth. This is open to anyone, regardless of where they are from, but how realistic is it to expect people from other countries will embrace this project? I absolutely welcome anyone who does. I do think there is a place for other cultures in Ireland but, beyond a critical mass (which we have already reached), they do indeed diminish our historical national identity, in my view. (By the way, you mentioned "what makes countries greater than others". Personally, I don't really believe any country is "greater" than any other, in an overall sense. Every country is equally precious, in my view. Nor do I necessarily think Ireland is "amazing". I agree with what Patrick Pearse said in his poem Mise Eire, which means I Am Ireland: Great my pride, great my shame. I'm not an Irish nationalist because I think Ireland is better than any other country, I'm an Irish nationalist because it happens to be my heritage and culture.) By the way, I am myself married to an immigrant from the USA. I think intermarriage is a very different situation to mass immigration, because marrying someone from a country involves a certain naturalisation in itself, and has occurred from time immemorial. |
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Post by renatamaria on Jan 8, 2020 13:48:24 GMT
Another problem is that Ireland doesn't really HAVE a national identity or a national culture-- there is next to no difference between us and the UK. In the late nineteenth century, we made an effort to revive (and partly invent) a national culture. It only achieved a limited success. We can't really resume this project in a multicultural Ireland. It is not Christianity which is distinctively Irish, but Irish culture-- the Irish language, Irish sport, Irish dance, Irish literature, and so forth. Thank you for answering it! See, maybe I have expressed myself in the wrong way. I don’t think Catholicism is all what Irish culture is, I absolutely adore Irish culture and it truly makes me sad walking around Ireland and seeing it slowly fading. But precisely from what you have said above I find it difficult to see what it is exactly that should be kept if it’s hard to say what is an Irish identity, should Ireland trace back what was Irish identity before the English invasion and try to revive it? Honestly asking here. lately I have questioned myself why we should even care about culture from a spiritual perspective? What is even the point of getting attached to anything in this world if ultimately our only purpose here is to make decisions that is going to take us to heaven. I have been struggling to care about things around me as I see the world crumbling and it would be great to hear what other catholics think about it. And finally when I say “greater countries” I’m referring to quality of life, which undoubtedly are different across the globe, with some countries being better to live than others. |
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Post by maolsheachlann on Jan 8, 2020 14:03:53 GMT
Another problem is that Ireland doesn't really HAVE a national identity or a national culture-- there is next to no difference between us and the UK. In the late nineteenth century, we made an effort to revive (and partly invent) a national culture. It only achieved a limited success. We can't really resume this project in a multicultural Ireland. It is not Christianity which is distinctively Irish, but Irish culture-- the Irish language, Irish sport, Irish dance, Irish literature, and so forth. Thank you for answering it! See, maybe I have expressed myself in the wrong way. I don’t think Catholicism is all what Irish culture is, I absolutely adore Irish culture and it truly makes me sad walking around Ireland and seeing it slowly fading. But precisely from what you have said above I find it difficult to see what it is exactly that should be kept if it’s hard to say what is an Irish identity, should Ireland trace back what was Irish identity before the English invasion and try to revive it? Honestly asking here. lately I have questioned myself why we should even care about culture from a spiritual perspective? What is even the point of getting attached to anything in this world if ultimately our only purpose here is to make decisions that is going to take us to heaven. I have been struggling to care about things around me as I see the world crumbling and it would be great to hear what other catholics think about it. And finally when I say “greater countries” I’m referring to quality of life, which undoubtedly are different across the globe, with some countries being better to live than others. Those are great questions, Rentamaria. Your question about caring about culture from a spiritual perspective is one that I've thought about a GREAT deal over the last few years. Every now and again I have come to the conclusion that only eternity really matters and not temporal matters like culture. However, I think it's very difficult to stick to that outlook consistently and I'm not even sure it's the correct one. It's interesting to me that the vision of Heaven in Revelation seems to suggest that nations and tribes still have significance in Eternity: "After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb." Yes, I do think Ireland should "trace back what was Irish identity before the English invasion and try to revive it", allowing for a good deal of creativity in that revival. I think we should resume the project of the Gaelic Revival of the late nineteenth century-- romantic and cultural nationalism, basically. It's an imaginative ideal, rooted in a certain version of Irish history, and I see no reason to re-invent that particular wheel-- the images of Irishness that have been most potent and enduring were all given to us by the Gaelic Revival. |
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Post by renatamaria on Jan 9, 2020 13:09:51 GMT
Interesting, now that you have said I started thinking also how God had chosen a People (jews).. would you say that maybe God does think that cultural difference does matter? Despite God being God He never appeared to try blend cultures and make it all the same... quite the opposite, He created a world where the environment, the genes and the history could shape different identities. Maybe just for the sake of make this world interesting, just like the purpose of the stars in the sky is to makes it beautiful.
Anyways I do stand for keeping Irish culture and identity alive. I’d hate to think that Ireland will be something else. I believe that the war against the Catholic Church pushed by the media in this country in particular has made Irish people embrace anything that market itself as Anti Catholic. That’s how loads of changes have been made in this society... everything that is not catholic is good. Therefore the abandonment of Christians values seems to be a crucial reason for the decline of the national identity. When the catholic moral that built this society was deconstructed it created a void that is everyday filled with materialism, nihilism, new age spirituality, communist values and all sort of ideologies pushed by a globalist agenda. But it’s all or nothing. The propaganda is that if you reject the Catholic Church you must embrace everything against it - but everything against it comes from the globalist project of one world culture. It’s in that sense that I believe that restarting people’s faith might be the only way forward to keep Irish identity alive.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Jan 9, 2020 13:29:08 GMT
Interesting, now that you have said I started thinking also how God had chosen a People (jews).. would you say that maybe God does think that cultural difference does matter? Despite God being God He never appeared to try blend cultures and make it all the same... quite the opposite, He created a world where the environment, the genes and the history could shape different identities. Maybe just for the sake of make this world interesting, just like the purpose of the stars in the sky is to makes it beautiful. Anyways I do stand for keeping Irish culture and identity alive. I’d hate to think that Ireland will be something else. I believe that the war against the Catholic Church pushed by the media in this country in particular has made Irish people embrace anything that market itself as Anti Catholic. That’s how loads of changes have been made in this society... everything that is not catholic is good. Therefore the abandonment of Christians values seems to be a crucial reason for the decline of the national identity. When the catholic moral that built this society was deconstructed it created a void that is everyday filled with materialism, nihilism, new age spirituality, communist values and all sort of ideologies pushed by a globalist agenda. But it’s all or nothing. The propaganda is that if you reject the Catholic Church you must embrace everything against it - but everything against it comes from the globalist project of one world culture. It’s in that sense that I believe that restarting people’s faith might be the only way forward to keep Irish identity alive. I completely agree with you. Nationalists often refer to the Tower of Babel story as an indication of God's attitude towards globalism. I wouldn't go that far-- it seems more a condemnation of man's hubris in general-- but I don't see why it's not legitimate to seek to protect the diversity and continuity of cultures, seeing them as part of God's creation. Nationalists in Ireland tend to be Catholics (or at least Christians). I've noticed that when young people in Ireland turn against the liberal-secular-globalist propaganda constantly being pumped at them, they tend to become both nationalist and Christian. I'm surprised, for instance, how the Irish YouTube commentator Dave Cullen has found his way both to nationalism AND Christianity. youtu.be/INcBu8koOeU |
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 20, 2020 19:02:15 GMT
Here's an interesting discussion of the limitations of contemporary populist appeals to "cultural Christianity" by people who see it simply in terms of externals and tribal boundaries. This can of course be overstated - one source of cultural renewal can be to start at the externals and work back to first principles, as Pugin did with neo-Gothic architecture - but I do think there is a great danger of the faith being hijacked for ulterior purposes a la Charles Maurras (or marxisant forms of liberation theology). www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/christianity-culture-politics-mary-harrington/ |
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Post by maolsheachlann on Feb 21, 2020 10:22:47 GMT
I can heartily agree with the last few lines:
"I have an instinctive aversion to a Christianity that is merely cultural, because I take the claims of the Christian faith seriously. On the other hand, I try to resist the weird idea that any cultural expression of Christianity, or Christian cultural framework, is somehow a betrayal of Christianity. As the church historian Robert Louis Wilken has written, the Church was and is a culture, because that is how the theological ideas and transcendent realities to which the religion points are mediated to us mortals.
So: a Christian culture is necessary for the Christian religion to thrive, but it is not the same thing as the Christian religion. Those who confuse the two will end up losing both the Christian religion and the Christian culture."
In the end, the only reason to embrace Christianity is because you believe it is true, that Jesus Christ literally rose from the dead.
I read that the priests who counselled Roger Casement towards the end of his life warned him that it was wrong to convert to Catholicism from patriotic motives, that he had to actually believe in the doctrine.
I think it works the other way, too. As a nationalist I become frustrated with Catholics who want a national identity predicated on Catholicism. You can't demand that somebody believes something. Nationality and religion are different, however intertwined they become in practice.
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