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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on May 27, 2008 11:50:18 GMT
The Kildare and Leighlin Diocese is home to about 205,000 Catholics in 56 parishes staffed by 192 priests. It makes up the greater part of counties Carlow, Kildare and Laois with some territory in counties Offaly, Kilkenny, Wicklow and Wexford. Its official website is: www.kandle.ie/. Kildare and Leighlin has had three bishops since 1984: Bishop Patrick Lennon was bishop from 1967 to 1987; Bishop Laurence Ryan, Coadjutor from 1984 was Bishop between 1987 and 2002; and Bishop James Moriarity since 2002. Mgr Moriarity was an Auxilliary Bishop in Dublin from 1991 to 2002. Campaigns for a regular indult Mass began almost simultaneously in Carlow Town and in Newbridge, Co Kildare around 1993/4. Soon afterwards, Carlow campaigners took action against the Administrator of Carlow Cathedral to restrain a proposed re-ordering of the cathedral. The High Court allowed the re-ordering go ahead but ordered the diocesan authorities to maintain allow removed articles pending a full hearing of the case in the Supreme Court. This has yet to be heard. Bishop Ryan never allowed the traditional Mass and there is anectdotal evidence that he intimidated priests of the diocese willing to say it. His liturgical expert, the late Mgr Sean Swain suggested on national television the work of Satan was evident in the protests against the Cathedral re-ordering. Since Mgr Moriarity became Bishop in Kildare and Leighlin, he allowed an annual Mass in honour of St Brigid in Kildare Town in February. This is run by Ecclesia Dei Ireland and local evidence suggests it serves the interest of people travelling from Dublin rather than locals. Moves for regular Masses in either part of the diocese are ongoing.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 3, 2008 14:14:35 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Jun 15, 2008 1:17:51 GMT
Well I know Kildare town well..the horses and all that...but if there were ever to be an Old Rite Mass it should be held in the White Abbey-still under the guardianship of the Carmelites as it has been since the 13th century. Interior has been somewhat foodled with but the altar is now free-standing with 3 steps leading up to it-perfect for the Extraordinary Form!! A pity there is no attempt to have one there so far...I know the EDI crowd like toi have their Mass in St Brigids...that place is v.depressing...an example of how one might thoroughly destroy a Church....imagine reorientating the altar and tabernacle from east to south? ? sickening
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Jun 15, 2008 23:03:36 GMT
Monkeyman, are you in a position to make something happen with the EF in Kildare?
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jun 16, 2008 9:45:33 GMT
I know EDI tried for the White Abbey - successive priors vetoed it.
But that would be a venue for the old Carmelite rite, wouldn't it?
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 16, 2008 15:04:59 GMT
Can you tell me, Askel, where to get a Carmelite in Ireland willing to say the old Carmelite rite?
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Post by monkeyman on Jun 16, 2008 18:02:14 GMT
Monkeyman, are you in a position to make something happen with the EF in Kildare? Well not really....but I made it to the Mass run by Vicky Nestor with the Institute of Christ the King in Limerick on Sunday. Fr Lebocq (the celebrating priest) in conversation told me that he had just had an inquiry from someone in Kildare although my memory fails me as to the exact location...nevertheless there just might be some factuality to the claim [edit by moderator] that there are petitions from 7 parishes at present not that I'm questioning that or anything....it just seems a tad high.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jun 17, 2008 11:35:58 GMT
The first question is that are these petitions being presented by parishioners in seven parishes; if not it is a waste of time.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 17, 2008 13:24:49 GMT
Even if they are all parishioners, it would make more sense to pool their efforts and concentrate on one parish.
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Post by braveheart on Jul 27, 2008 15:21:08 GMT
Re: "Well I know Kildare town well..the horses and all that...but if there were ever to be an Old Rite Mass it should be held in the White Abbey-still under the guardianship of the Carmelites as it has been since the 13th century. Interior has been somewhat foodled with but the altar is now free-standing with 3 steps leading up to it-perfect for the Extraordinary Form!!"
You don't seem to know the Friary as well as you say, Monkeyman - strange nom de plume for a traditional Catholic - because you'd know that the top step in the Friary is too short to genuflect at. The Parish Church is a poor second but it's an improvement on a Mass Rock.
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Post by braveheart on Jul 27, 2008 15:25:05 GMT
"there just might be some factuality to the claim [edit by moderator] that there are petitions from 7 parishes at present not that I'm questioning that or anything....it just seems a tad high"
Poor Monkeyman - that's not even what the group is called! I know some of those involved and they limited the number of petitions to the 7 Parishes where the numbers were reasonable and where there was a suitable Church. As far as I know, each group consists of Parishioners making the request to their own Pastors, as SP suggested.
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Post by braveheart on Jul 27, 2008 15:38:33 GMT
Re: "home to about 205,000 Catholics in 56 parishes staffed by 192 priests"
If you checked the 2007 Annuario Pontificio for Kildare and Leighlin you'll get those figures but, if you checked previous years you'd see that K&L has submitted several incorrect returns. The AP 2004 gave 5 Permanent Deacons! The number of secular clergy dropped from 117 to 114 between AP 04 and AP 05 and was static between the AP 05 and 07. The number of religious priests is static between AP 04 and 05 at 43 but LEAPS up to 78 in 07, just as the number of male religious leaps up from 72 to 102.
From that you'd be forgiven for thinking that K&L had had seen three or four new monasteries founded in two years. The answer is probably just administrative incompetence.
The real figure in K&L is less than 114 seculars (less than 90 active) and less than 43 religious priests, giving a maximum of 157. Many of the younger priests are off on courses of one sort or another or given weekend pastoral jobs so that they can concentrate on administration in Carlow.
I would guess that the 205,185 figure for Catholics is rubbish too because the increase in just one small parish on its own (4,000 to 16,000) would account for half the increase that the Diocese claims since 2000 (181,807 to 205,185 Catholics and 192,759 to 220,427 total population).
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Aug 3, 2008 20:53:47 GMT
If you checked the 2007 Annuario Pontificio for Kildare and Leighlin you'll get those figures but, if you checked previous years you'd see that K&L has submitted several incorrect returns. The AP 2004 gave 5 Permanent Deacons! The number of secular clergy dropped from 117 to 114 between AP 04 and AP 05 and was static between the AP 05 and 07. The number of religious priests is static between AP 04 and 05 at 43 but LEAPS up to 78 in 07, just as the number of male religious leaps up from 72 to 102.
From that you'd be forgiven for thinking that K&L had had seen three or four new monasteries founded in two years. The answer is probably just administrative incompetence.
The real figure in K&L is less than 114 seculars (less than 90 active) and less than 43 religious priests, giving a maximum of 157. Many of the younger priests are off on courses of one sort or another or given weekend pastoral jobs so that they can concentrate on administration in Carlow.
I would guess that the 205,185 figure for Catholics is rubbish too because the increase in just one small parish on its own (4,000 to 16,000) would account for half the increase that the Diocese claims since 2000 (181,807 to 205,185 Catholics and 192,759 to 220,427 total population).[/quote][/i]
Braveheart, Are you one of those bespeckled accountants wearing a bow tie and saddle shoes with checkered pants or do you simply enjoy nit-picking a subject to your great personal pleasure?
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Post by braveheart on Aug 4, 2008 14:56:43 GMT
Well, your maj, I'm not. There are enough 'bespeckled accountant' types on here already to make a Revenue Officer redundant. I'm just a local who knows what he's talking about. It's a unique contribution that I thought I'd bring to the conversation...
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Post by braveheart on Aug 4, 2008 15:00:02 GMT
And speaking of local contributions, this came into my 'inbox' yesterday.
Saint Conleth’s Catholic Heritage Association invites you to honour the Holy Year of St. Paul by attending Holy Mass in the Traditional Latin Rite (Missal of Blessed John XXIII) on Saturday, 30th August, 2008, at 11 a.m., in St. Paul’s Church, Emo, Co. Laois, Ireland, followed by a tour of Emo Court and Gardens.
For the past 15 years, St. Conleth’s Catholic Heritage Association has been working prayerfully for the provision of the Traditional Latin Liturgy in the Diocese of Kildare and Leighlin.
God bless you!
Saint Conleth’s Catholic Heritage Association
Looks like a nice day out. Be sure to wear your tiara, O'Siodhachain, and I'll know who to say hi to. Monkeyman, I'll recognise from the pictures.
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