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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 25, 2015 9:20:14 GMT
Like Ranger said in the television thread, I prefer DVDs to TV. And recently I joined Lovefilm for a couple of months for the main purpose of putting myself through a crash course in Irish film.
I have many impressions, including the fact that the real-life Irish I meet seem a far kinder group of people than is often portrayed in these films. Intermission is one of the most misanthropic films I've ever seen in my life, where hardly anyone seemed to have any redeeming characteristic. I could hardly recognise the Ireland I saw in that film. Calvary was also disturbing, although definitely better … there were certainly redeeming features there.
Obviously, every culture has it's own dark side and I'm not one to hang out with drug addicts and pimps, who obviously exist everywhere and have stories to tell.
Yet I find even urban Dublin still has an uncommon friendliness and helpfulness. Have been quite stunned there in my visits. I don't see the same in urban Britain etc. And these films weren't showing this side of Ireland.
Anyway, the Irish Film Industry seems to be rapidly expanding. Obviously, there's a unique opening there in that Ireland can appeal to the immense Anglophone market in ways that Italy or Spain, say, can't. These films will inevitably touch on Catholic culture more than British or American ones will - and so they carry definite messages about Catholicism to the world.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Ranger on Jul 25, 2015 11:27:10 GMT
I generally have low expectations of Irish cinema. I think that our artistic classes, such as they are, tend to be paragons of that self-hating attitude some Irish have and so their films tend to portray Ireland very negatively, especially the Church. I think of the Magdalene Sisters film (which the official report on the laundries suggests was greatly exaggerated in its portrayal of the sins of the nuns) or, indeed, Intermission, which I had the displeasure of watching half of during a class in secondary school.
Of course, there are exceptions; I know some here disagree but I thought that Calvary did a very good job of questioning certain attitudes towards the Church and actually portraying a good, human priest, even if it had its drawbacks.
And there are other Irish films which don't go in for that kind of self-hating, but nonetheless I find a bit depressing since they're full of very secular attitudes. I think of Once, which I enjoyed to a degree, especially the representation of modern Dublin and some of the music, but the attitude of the Glen Hansard character that falling in love with somebody means getting them straight into bed and if they refuse this is a bad thing is just tiresome at this stage.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Jul 25, 2015 19:05:45 GMT
I used to post on a forum about the poet Philip Larkin-- the Philip Larkin Society forum. (They took it down around 2007 to redevelop it-- when they brought it back nobody posted there any more. Now and again I look at it and there are one or two new posts a year. So maybe this forum is not doing too badly after all.) Anyway, there was one rather pugnacious regular whose name was Conrad Jones and who used the rather clever alias Cojones. In a discussion on Irish literature (because the forum branched out to all sorts of subjects), he wrote something like this: "I don't read Irish literature because it's always trying too hard to be Irish or too hard NOT to be Irish". I think there's a lot of truth in that, and that it applies to Irish film as well. The best Irish film I saw in the last few years was a lowbrow comedy called Zonad about a guy who escapes from prison and persuades the incredbibly naive inhabitants of a rural village that he's an alien. Despite some very crude humour-- which really crosses the line once or twice-- it's mostly a sweet and endearingly silly piece. I won't get into the Calvary debate again!
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 26, 2015 11:16:07 GMT
I resonate with the above, alas. However, I'm more sociologically interested in these fims than I am in their artistic merits. God willing, I hope to live out my days in this country and do something constructive in terms of Catholic culture here. For that I want to better understand the Irish soul - including its present maladies.
Like I say, I'm a bit cut off. Studying these films helps. Ranger, maolsheachlann, you both seem to getting at the same thing with your comments about "paragons of that self-hating attitude some Irish have" and "trying … hard NOT to be Irish."
If you'd like to say more, I'd be grateful. Or perhaps give me any links to comments here or blogs where you've discussed this attitude.
On the other hand, I'm glad you both mention exceptions … I think these are important, inasmuch as, again, Irish film is expanding and I am interested in how this may impact the Anglosphere.
I will look for the sweet if crude Zonad and be grateful to know of any further exceptions from anyone.
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Post by Ranger on Jul 26, 2015 17:10:30 GMT
I think that Maolsheaclann has written a bit about this before, and perhaps some prime examples (which he mentioned on facebook recently) are two blogs called Gombeen Nation and Bock The Robber which constantly post very vicious articles about how awful the Irish are and how awful Ireland is with a particular emphasis on how awful the Catholic Church is.
I think that there's a very cynical, negative streak in the Irish character, which comes from having been oppressed for a long time by a foreign power, a kind of national inferiority complex. At its best this means that Irish people have their feet on the ground and are realistic about things, but often it's expressed through cynicism. Now, not everybody is like this in Ireland at all, we are known for our friendliness and welcoming nature too, but in many instances people seem to embrace cynicism as a kind of defense mechanism against a lot of the struggles we've been through as a nation (think of the Troubles, the authoritarian nature of the Church in earlier decades, mass emigration and economic difficulties and so on) and in extreme cases this becomes a hatred of everything Irish and consequently everything Catholic.
I think that this is particularly intense in the capital and amongst the academic/literary/media elite since those groups have often looked first to England or in some cases the Soviet bloc as a symbol of everything non-Irish, which is why this attitude is very prevalent in our arts circles and our films and novels tend to be grim and depressing.
I must admit a tendency towards this attitude myself, which comes in part from a lack of confidence in Irish secular or Church authorities, but at least I'm aware of it and don't wish to embrace it. I've been trying to live the virtues of hope and joy more recently (not with incredible success, I must say), as I think these are two virtues very much lacking in our culture.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 27, 2015 20:09:44 GMT
I think that Maolsheaclann has written a bit about this before, and perhaps some prime examples (which he mentioned on facebook recently) are two blogs called Gombeen Nation and Bock The Robber which constantly post very vicious articles about how awful the Irish are and how awful Ireland is with a particular emphasis on how awful the Catholic Church is. I'd probably agree with you re Bock, though I would agree with Gombeen Nation on some points related to cultural nationalism (though certainly not re abortion and Catholicism).I think that there's a very cynical, negative streak in the Irish character, which comes from having been oppressed for a long time by a foreign power, a kind of national inferiority complex. At its best this means that Irish people have their feet on the ground and are realistic about things, but often it's expressed through cynicism. Now, not everybody is like this in Ireland at all, we are known for our friendliness and welcoming nature too, but in many instances people seem to embrace cynicism as a kind of defense mechanism against a lot of the struggles we've been through as a nation (think of the Troubles, the authoritarian nature of the Church in earlier decades, mass emigration and economic difficulties and so on) and in extreme cases this becomes a hatred of everything Irish and consequently everything Catholic. I think that this is particularly intense in the capital and amongst the academic/literary/media elite since those groups have often looked first to England or in some cases the Soviet bloc as a symbol of everything non-Irish, which is why this attitude is very prevalent in our arts circles and our films and novels tend to be grim and depressing. Yes, that attitude certainly exists all right, though I suspect that not many people would openly look to England: The Reform Group, the largest pro-British group, is fairly marginal, and generally stays away from direct involvement in politics. The far-left OTOH is much stronger and far more vocal in comparison.I must admit a tendency towards this attitude myself, which comes in part from a lack of confidence in Irish secular or Church authorities, but at least I'm aware of it and don't wish to embrace it. I've been trying to live the virtues of hope and joy more recently (not with incredible success, I must say), as I think these are two virtues very much lacking in our culture. As do I. The problem is that given the dysfunctional nature of Irish society, a little cynicism is almost inevitable and indeed necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 15:11:23 GMT
I think everyone suffers from cynicism. Recently I've been trying to overcome it myself. First step is to try to stop worrying about my pride so much.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Jul 28, 2015 15:22:02 GMT
I suffer from galloping naivity.
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Post by Ranger on Jul 28, 2015 15:24:21 GMT
Don't worry about it, it's refreshing in a fellow Irishman.
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