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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 12:11:06 GMT
I was at Mass on Sunday (obviously), and we got to the homily. At one point the priest starts talking about someone who converted to the faith who said that the thing that most encouraged them wasn't so much what they learned about the faith, but the people they encountered. On the one hand I think this sort of makes sense as I tend to be inspired by faithful Catholics, though at the same time I have a hard time believing there are many Catholics living like the people I am inspired by. I suppose I picked up undertones of "it doesn't matter if you listen to the Church as long as you're a good person" - even saying this makes me want to role my eyes.
But then we got to the end of the homily, and the priest finishes off with this:
"Do not speak about Christ unless asked, but live like Christ so that you will be asked."
This is without a doubt some of the worst - and considering it came from a priest, disgusting - "advice" I have ever heard aimed at Catholics. It goes to show that the undertones I detected were there the whole time. Live like a "good" person and then people will probably ask you what your religious beliefs are, opening the way for conversion. What a delusional load of nonsense. This is the first time I've ever heard cowardice coming from the mouth of a priest in person. Jesus Christ, the founder of the Church, Word made flesh, Redemption of all mankind, the Son of God consubstantial with God the Father Almighty. He's pretty important, but you don't want to come across as preachy, right?
Not shoving Catholicism into people's faces is one thing. I think everyone understands that feeling forced into a situation will make you uncomfortable and try to cut all ties to avoid being in that situation. But not mentioning Jesus Christ at all? I realise that I've been fortunate to find pretty good sources to build up my faith and knowledge of my faith, but I don't think even I could have been this stupid.
What do you think? Anyone else ever have problems with their priests?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 12:18:48 GMT
Sorry, I should point out that the priest was actually quoting someone though I'm not sure if the person he quoted was the converted or someone else. The fact that the priest said it is what bothers me though.
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Post by maolsheachlann on May 6, 2014 13:55:47 GMT
I totally agree with you, Antaine. I think this attitude is a huge problem. It's very naive to think that we are all going to be so good and Christ-like that we will simply evangelize through the charm of our behaviour. Aside from anything else, there isn't really the opportunity in most social or work or educational situations. Besides, Christ himself preached a great deal, at least from the moment of his baptism.
Since we are all "good people", why is this so obviously NOT happening already, as Mass attendance and vocations have declined so dramatically?
I also don't see why it would be necessary to wait until you are asked to speak about Christ, or about your faith. I'm pretty confident in saying that everybody who knows me to any degree knows my religious views and I've never had to be pushy about it. The opportunity to speak about them arises naturally all the time. "What did you do at the weekend?" "Well, I went to the cinema, I went for a long walk, I went to Mass".... "What are you reading?" "I'm reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church". That sort of thing.
Even with that I feel I am not evangelizing as I should. My shyness holds me back.
Romans 10:14-15: "How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher?"
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Post by Young Ireland on May 6, 2014 18:16:11 GMT
I broadly agree with both you, however I would not dismiss the works of mercy completely as an evangelisation tool. Certainly, I do think the priest goes too far in one direction, words ARE often needed to evangelise, however words without actions are equally meaningless. Frank Duff and the Legion of Mary is a very good example of effective vangelisation through actions (though they used words too of course...). The trick I think, is to have a balance.
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Post by maolsheachlann on May 6, 2014 20:01:39 GMT
Absolutely. By the way, nice to hear from you again, Young Ireland.
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Post by Cameron on May 6, 2014 23:40:04 GMT
Although we should live our lives conformed to Christ, this almost requires a certain amount of talking ABOUT Christ to other people. I don't know of any saint, particular to evangelisation, who spread the truth of the Church by keeping their mouth shut and standing in front of a closed door.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 11:55:51 GMT
Thank you for that quote from the Bible Maolsheachlann. That makes the point perfectly.
Young Ireland, that is exactly what I mean. We shouldn't just be all talk, but neither should we just "do" and hope for the best.
You are right Cameron. The Saints weren't particularly timid about their faith, and I'm sure most if not all would be considered politically incorrect today.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 21:44:34 GMT
The Priest could have worded it a lot better. The much better wording of St . Francis of Assisi comes to mind 'Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words' There is nothing as off putting as an argumentative and unjoyful person preaching the gospel to others
On the subject of horrid homily's I heard a much worse, and a more damaging one, where a Priest preached that the Hindu spirituality notion that "all is one" and that we are God, and God is us, is correct.
To the uninformed it would have sounded a very reasonable 'modern' 'inclusive' homily, but it was nothing less than preaching pantheism. Shocking really.
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Post by annie on Jun 14, 2023 13:42:11 GMT
Should we perhaps say something to such priests? Are we being cowardly rather than charitable by not doing so? Where is the muscular Christianity displayed by such as Frank Duff who pointed out to us the danger of seeking human respect at all costs? In the month of the Sacred Heart I came across this piece on EWTN about how Frank went courageously into the fray for the Lord ewtn.co.uk/article-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-sacred-heart-in-dublin/
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jun 16, 2023 9:40:23 GMT
Sometimes the question is not to balance courage and charity, but to look at prudence.
It could be a waste of time even to engage with some of these priests.
What they were taught in seminary was one thing, but also the sort of personality that was cultivated and encouraged outside lectures produced the sort of priest we have now, both secular and religious.
Clericalism, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed only converted from one form into another. Some of the most clericalist of priests are those who are convinced they aren't - this is something I wish the Pope would reflect on.
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Post by hibernicus on Jun 17, 2023 12:03:24 GMT
The impression given by the piece on Frank Duff is that the British Army were the main customers for the Dublin red light district. They were major customers, but the clientele was far wider. (One of the sadder remarks I came across in the published diaries of the late C19 academic Mary Hayden was her remark on the number of her male friends who admitted having visited that district, and how this was regarded as venial in a man whereas a woman who behaved similarly would be disgraced forever). It's also worth noting that Frank Duff clashed with Archbishop McQuaid over the publication of MIRACLES ON TAP. The Archbishop thought the existence of such a place was best forgotten, whereas Frank Duff saw its closure as a great work of God's grace which ought to be remembered as such. The Archbishop pressured Frank Duff into not writing more on the subject (as he had originally intended). This is another way in which the worst enemies can be members of the household.
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