winc
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by winc on Nov 22, 2012 18:45:37 GMT
did Mary sin and die - winc
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Post by Young Ireland on Nov 22, 2012 18:56:38 GMT
No and it's debateable. It's a dogma that she was assumed into heaven but it doesn't say if she died before being taken up.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 22, 2012 19:21:12 GMT
It is a doctrine that MAry was preserved from sin throughout her life through the merits of her Son. The question of whether or not she died before her bodily assumption into Heaven is open for debate, but the predominant view has been that she died first. The Wikipedia entry has an useful quote by Pop John PAul II on how this is compatible withd eath as punishment for sin: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_of_the_Theotokos
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Post by Young Ireland on Nov 22, 2012 19:23:54 GMT
Thanks, hibernicus. I should have made it clearer about her lack of sin.
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winc
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by winc on Nov 22, 2012 21:31:19 GMT
imho Mary did not sin and did not die - even Jesus who was sinless had to be made sin for us or else He would not have died - for her own safety,sanctuary and security those who knew about Mary's latter day whereabouts where sworn to secrecy to protect her falling into the hands of those who were persecuting and killing the early followers of the way and Mary would have been a top target - the secret was so well and faithfully kept that she was never discovered - this is how I read it and accept it - winc
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 23, 2012 19:20:51 GMT
Winc has obviously never heard of the traditions saying that Our Lady lived and died in Ephesus (which Colm Toibin has so vilely travestied in his latest blasphemy). Being more ignorant than Colm Toibin is a remarkable feat, but it doesn't stop winc from setting himself up as sole judge of heresy. I would ban him if I hadn't banned him already.
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Post by anon on Apr 12, 2013 22:37:42 GMT
i believe that Mary was not a sinner This is a very good prayer to our lady: O must beautiful flower of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendour of heaven. Blessed Mother of the son of God, immaculate virgin, assist me in this my necessity. O star of the sea, help me and show me herein you are my mother of God, Queen of heaven and Earth. i humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succour me in this my necessity (make request). There are none that can withstand your power. O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee (3 times). Holy Mary, I place this cause in your hands (3 times). Thank you for your mercy towards me and mine. This is a lovely prayer which when said for 3 consecutive days Mary will grant your request, must be published on the third day.
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Post by Tertium Non Datur on Aug 6, 2014 0:35:48 GMT
It is a doctrine that MAry was preserved from sin throughout her life through the merits of her Son. The question of whether or not she died before her bodily assumption into Heaven is open for debate, but the predominant view has been that she died first. The Wikipedia entry has an useful quote by Pop John PAul II on how this is compatible withd eath as punishment for sin: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_of_the_Theotokos The predominent view is irrational.
The death of humans is a direct consequence of original sin. Mary was preserved from that original sin. The follow on logic is that she was also preserved from a human death. The only solution is that Mary volunteered to accept a human death in order to conform her life to that of her Son but that is entirely speculative. Nobody really knows. The tradition is that Mary fell asleep [ ie did not die] and was then assumed body and soul into Heaven.
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