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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 28, 2008 21:31:56 GMT
No to praying the rosary; along with Sister Wendy Becket, it does nothing prayer wise for me. Our understanding of the Catechism is that the Marian devotion and the rosary are by no means obligatory but optional. Sorella, I copied from Canon Law, Formation of the Religious Life for Priests: §3. The veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary, including the marian rosary, mental prayer, and other exercises of piety are to be fostered; through these, students are to acquire a spirit of prayer and gain strength in their vocation.I also copied from Canon Law, Formation for Convent which applies to Sister Wendy Becket the following:CHAPTER IV. THE OBLIGATIONS AND RIGHTS OF INSTITUTES AND THEIR MEMBERS Can. 662 Religious are to have as the supreme rule of life the following of Christ proposed in the gospel and expressed in the constitutions of their own institute. Can. 663 §1. The first and foremost duty of all religious is to be the contemplation of divine things and assiduous union with God in prayer. §2. Members are to make every effort to participate in the eucharistic sacrifice daily, to receive the most sacred Body of Christ, and to adore the Lord himself present in the sacrament. §3. They are to devote themselves to the reading of sacred scripture and mental prayer, to celebrate worthily the liturgy of the hours according to the prescripts of proper law, without prejudice to the obligation for clerics mentioned in ⇒ can. 276, §2, n. 3, and to perform other exercises of piety. §4. With special veneration, they are to honor the Virgin Mother of God, the example and protector of all consecrated life, also through the marian rosary. Sister Wendy Becket is leading you astray and teaching error. She is obligated by her vows to Marian Devotion and Rosary, further, she is not permitted to entice anyone to forsake the Rosary as obligated by her vows.
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 28, 2008 21:48:16 GMT
What I REALLY can't get over is his majesty O'Siodhachain thinking that those of us who like the Rosary
Dear Braveheart,
You needn't refer to me as His Majesty, I am a poor Irish peasant. The Rosary is intended to enlighten our hearts to the Mysteries of Christ. All Pope John Paul 11 did to the Rosary is Luminate the Luminous Mysteries and enlighten our hearts beyond anything we have experience in the past. That is not an act of arrogance as you falsely perceive, that is an act of devotion to the Rosary from a Pope whom I am certain prayed the Rosary more than you ever dreamed of.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Jul 28, 2008 22:29:47 GMT
Speaking of the Mass, it's a similar situation where the authorities think that the way to spread the thing is to change it. Nobody learns from history these days. Certainly not 'the Pope of the Rosary,' as I bet his fans would call JPII. I'd give the title to Pius V or Leo XIII myself. Would I be right in thinking that you are not altogether delighted by all of the Vatican II innovations? I think most of us here would have the same point of view, generally, but we would not reject the whole thing. This is mostly a Traditionalist board, but not SSPX and certainly not sedevacantist. Please tell us more about your analysis.
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Post by sorella on Jul 29, 2008 16:03:07 GMT
Royal, your reply was entirely predictable, sadly. Sr Wendy actually is a Consecrated Virgin, not a Nun and her spiritual life is in safe and very expert hands.
And nothing you quote says that the rosary is obligatory. Far from it.
We raised this issue on Catholic Answers; and were told, as we already knew, that neither marian reverence nor the rosary were obligatory. But are optional, simply.
Maybe you need to go to Catholic Answers, and let them explain this to you as they did to us.
We do not mind that you pray the rosary, if it helps you. many non-Catholics do too - and many fine Catholics , like Sr Wendy - and us - do not.
And she is a fine Catholic.
Why do you judge and accuse like this? Where is the love of Jesus in that?
And that is fine too.
After all, it is a relatively modern system of Prayer...
Nor do we worship Mary or any save God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We lament the path that some are taking on the "co-mediatrix" idolatry... Bless your journey.... we are offline now for many weeks, for Prayer and Silence... and to make rosaries to sell to feed starving babies.
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 29, 2008 17:53:47 GMT
And nothing you quote says that the rosary is obligatory. Far from it.
Sorella,
Of course my reply is predictable, you have already discovered that I strive for obedience to Catholic Doctrine and have made it my goal to educate the misinformed. That is entirely the wonder of being Catholic, once you know the Eucharist in truth, everything else Catholic is predictable in truth.
I feel compassion for you (I, having been an educator) that your reading comprehension is impaired. I will suggest you enroll in a class for the reading impaired. The Rosary is mandatory and obligatory in the formation of Priests and Nuns professing vows according to Catholic Doctrine in the Canon
Maybe you need to go to Catholic Answers, and let them explain this to you as they did to us.
Catholic Answers is not a source more reliable than the Canon of the Church which I already quoted. Nor is Catholic Answers a recognized teaching authority for the Doctrine of the Church. Your local Bishop is the only recognized teaching authority and official representative of the Catholic Church of the Vatican and ordained by the Pope who can truthfully answer your misunderstanding about the Rosary.
Why do you judge and accuse like this? Where is the love of Jesus in that?
Your presumption that I judge and accuse is unfounded, perhaps you are suffering from a guilt complex due to negligence of duty or purpose or perhaps some omission on your part, I merely quoted the Canon Law which states the Rosary is obligatory for Priest formation and Conventual Vows, also the Catechism quotation stating the Rosary devotion is inseparable from worship to God. You titled your friend Wendy a Nun which makes Canon Law applicable to her vows, which immediately makes her judgment of the Rosary liable to discipline through Mother Superior. According to Christ, "Any who do the will of the Father are acceptable to me" which means obedient to God's commands or alse means obedient. The love of Jesus is primarily in his admiration for the obedient, His Divine Mercy is His Compassion for the disobedient when they prove themselves contrite of heart. The Bible in it's entirety points directly to obedience as the prerequisite to heaven. Christ placed as much emphasis on obedience as he did mercy.
Nor do we worship Mary or any save God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Neither the Catechism nor the Doctrine of the Church require worship of Mary, they do require venerationven·er·a·tion Audio Help /ˌvɛnəˈreɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ven-uh-rey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. the act of venerating. 2. the state of being venerated. 3. the feeling of a person who venerates; a feeling of awe, respect, etc.; reverence: They were filled with veneration for their priests. 4. an expression of this feeling: A memorial was erected in veneration of the dead of both world wars. of Mary as inseparable from worship of Christ and reception of Christ, that is clear language if you cannot read it, perhaps you should ask someone to read this to you, Submit your question to your local Bishop, but submit the question this way, "Is devotion to the Blessed Mother inseparable from worship of Christ"? The key word here is inseparable meaning you cannot have one with out the other. Do not submit it to Catholic Answers, rather a Bishop.
We lament the path that some are taking on the "co-mediatrix" idolatry...
You are terribly confused by your misunderstanding of Catechism, nowhere in the Catholic Church does anyone worship the Blessed Mother Mary, you will not find any evidence of it. All Catholic's are required to venerate the Blessed Mother of Christ as inseparable from her Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ. The illusion that veneration of the Blessed Mother of Christ is not required is no less heretical than the illusion that Christ is not present in the Eucharist. Both illusions are invalid protestant convictions. I urgently ask you to seek the council of a Bishop as your faith is utterly being disintegrated by error. It is wonderful you feed the babies, however keep in mind that according to the Gospel of Saint Paul, Salvation is wrought by doctrinal faith and good works are merely the outcome of faith, good works are not your Salvation, obedience to Doctrinal Faith of the Catholic church is your Salvation which is inseparable from the Divine Mercy of Christ. As regards Sister Wendy's consecrated virginity does not give her a license to be disobedient to her vows, it merely gives her a license to be virginal with all the protection declared in her consecration. She is still subject to Mother Superior and the obligation to the Rosary in her profession of vows. She is in error and leading you astray from Catholic Doctrine. Purity of heart is not obtained through virginity, many women are dedicated to virginity without consecration. Purity of heart is obtained through obedience according to Christ and all the Prophets and all the Apostles, all the Scriptures and all the Doctrine of the Church. If consecrated virginity exclusively obtained purity of heart, then everyone who is married will never get to heaven, including many of the Saints and Apostles and Prophets. Sr. Wendy's consecrated virginity simply means that she has forfeited bearing children through her own womb, which does not mean that it is a sin to bear children through the womb as Christ was born through the womb of the Blessed Mother Mary. Is that a sin in your book and Sr. Wendy's book? Finally, I would need to know who is advising Sr. Wendy so I can correct the error. Would you mind telling me who they are and how to contact them? The reversal you made in Sr. Wendy's religious affiliation status is telling me that Wendy is not a Sister. Consecrated virgin can be anyone Catholic as many Masses offer Consecrations to specific causes and this Consecration does not qualify a woman to be titled Sister nor a man Priest. Therefore, Wendy is still bound as Catholic (if she is Catholic) to the Catechism teaching that devotion to the Blessed Mother of Christ is inseparable from worship to Christ which does not make devotion to the Blessed Mother Mary optional, rather evidence of true worship to Christ.
Neither you nor Wendy can separate the Blessed Mother of Christ from Christ than you can separate Christ from God His Father in reality, only in your own mind. The reason you have to feed starving children is because of separated families. What you do when you separate the Blessed Mother Mary from Christ in your own mind, is separate a Blessed family.
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Post by braveheart on Jul 29, 2008 20:17:00 GMT
Crikey! His Majesty is off on one again! You'd think that nobody else on here is a Catholic!!!
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 29, 2008 20:41:32 GMT
Crikey! His Majesty is off on one again! You'd think that nobody else on here is a Catholic!!! Braveheart, You needn't refer to me as His Majesty, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is His Majesty and King of Heaven and Earth, I am subject to Christ, in fact a pauper. If you have something Catholic to write, I am ready to listen. As far as other Catholics on this thread or entire webpage is concerned, I know who they are because Catholics behave like Catholics and those that are not behave like themselves. To be fair, if you have something non-Catholic to write to me, I will also listen and respond to you. Proceed to write and thank your for your post. Here is a meditation I found for you. I hope you enjoy it Braveheart: 2 Peter 3:9 New International Version The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
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Post by braveheart on Jul 30, 2008 21:27:52 GMT
"Catholics behave like Catholics and those that are not behave like themselves"
Here is a meditation I found for you. I hope you enjoy it, Royal pauper...
One day, Hilaire Belloc came into a Church in a strange town. Mass had started so he stood at the back. An usher came over and gestured him to a vacant place. He looked at the man but didn't move. The usher came up to him and said "Sir, we usually kneel at this point in the Mass." Belloc snarled back "Go to hell!" The usher said, "Oh, I'm sorry sir, I didn't know you were a Catholic."
And speaking of Hilaire Belloc, here's one from his 'Lines for a Christmas Card'.
'May all my enemies go to hell, Noel! Noel! Noel! Noel!'
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Post by braveheart on Jul 30, 2008 21:42:43 GMT
Then there was the old story of the PP of the poorest Parish in the Diocese in the old days who was getting his visitation from the Bishop. The notes were given to him. 'House untidy, garden overgrown, walls haven't seen paint since you were appointed, sacristy roof leaking, Altar linen needs repair, ink spots in registers and handwriting needs to be clearer, and so on. Must be seen to by next visitation.'
Five years pass. Bishop returns. Nothing has changed for the better. Bishop gives a stern rebuke and threatens the PP with a Curate if things dont improve. Confirmations the next day. The PP gets into the pulpit.
"Now children, ye all remember what ye've been taught by yer good parents and yer teachers and by me, yer poor auld Priest. Today is a great day. Today ye receive a Sacrament. We all know what a Sacrament is. The outward sign of an inward grace. Today ye become soldiers of Christ. Today the Bishop here will slap yer faces to show ye what ye have to face in this life for serving Christ.
Remember, me children, that just because ye receive a Sacrament doesn't mean ye can go to sleep and stop fighting the good fight. Ye must keep up yer prayers. Ye must keep up yer good deeds. On top of all that ye must keep up a regular and a holy confession and holy Communion.
Ye can't rest for one minute or the divil will sweep ye away. Look at yer parents, they received all the Sacraments that ye have and they received another still, the Sacrament of Marriage and they still have to do their duty to God every day and especially every Sunday.
And the Bishop and me. We received another Sacrament again. The Sacrament of Holy Orders. Shure and we still have to tell our beads and make our confession like any of you. For, ye see, children, just because we receive a Sacrament doesnt mean we can lie back and take our ease. Just because we receive a Sacrament doesn't mean we can't go to Hell. Even as you leave this Church today, anointed by his lordship there, with the Holy Ghost in yer souls, ye can still be tempted and fall into sin and go to Hell unless ye fight the divil. And yer parents are the same... and so am I... and the Bishop, there... (turns around, looks at the Bishop, changes his tone just a bit)... well, he can go to hell too!!!
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 30, 2008 23:59:02 GMT
"Catholics behave like Catholics and those that are not behave like themselves" Here is a meditation I found for you. I hope you enjoy it, Royal pauper... One day, Hilaire Belloc came into a Church in a strange town. Mass had started so he stood at the back. An usher came over and gestured him to a vacant place. He looked at the man but didn't move. The usher came up to him and said "Sir, we usually kneel at this point in the Mass." Belloc snarled back "Go to hell!" The usher said, "Oh, I'm sorry sir, I didn't know you were a Catholic." And speaking of Hilaire Belloc, here's one from his 'Lines for a Christmas Card'. 'May all my enemies go to hell, Noel! Noel! Noel! Noel!' Braveheart, I know that you are not aware so I will inform you that 99% of all forms of humor are intentionally sarcastic and attempt to ridicule something. I believe you have lost the sense of reverence. Your attempt to be irreverent discredits your belief in Christ if you are of Christ, you have not told me so. Your presumption that Catholics wish you to go to hell is untrue. I prefer you are in heaven and I also. Anyone who wishes hell on you is not of Christ. That is why I gave you the meditation I did with the understanding that God wishes all to be with Him in heaven ie: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance".
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 31, 2008 0:06:09 GMT
and the Bishop, there... (turns around, looks at the Bishop, changes his tone just a bit)... well, he can go to hell too!!![/quote][/i]
Braveheart, So you know how to ridicule the Mass and the Priesthood and the Bishop. As I wrote, humor is an attempt to ridicule through sarcasm. The reason is to gain human respect. You see Braveheart, I already know you to be a beautiful person and I do respect you without the humor. My only desire for you and I is that we both find God together in these few brief moments. I can show you what the Scriptures have to say about humor and reverance:
* The Wisdom Books o Ecclesiastes + Chapter 8
2
Observe the precept of the king, and in view of your oath to God,
12
because the sinner does evil a hundred times and survives. Though indeed I know that it shall be well with those who fear God, for their reverence toward him;
13
and that it shall not be well with the wicked man, and he shall not prolong his shadowy days, for his lack of reverence toward God.
15
3 Therefore I commend mirth, because there is nothing good for man under the sun except eating and drinking and mirth: for this is the accompaniment of his toil during the limited days of the life which God gives him under the sun.
Dictionary.com mirth Audio Help /mɜrθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[murth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. gaiety or jollity, esp. when accompanied by laughter: the excitement and mirth of the holiday season. 2. amusement or laughter: He was unable to conceal his mirth. [Origin: bef. 900; ME mirthe, OE myrgth. See merry, -th1]
—Synonyms 1, 2. Mirth, merriment, jollity, joviality refer to the gaiety characterizing people who are enjoying the companionship of others. Mirth suggests spontaneous amusement or gaiety, manifested briefly in laughter: uncontrolled outbursts of mirth Mirth suggests an effervescence of high spirits or exultation, often manifested in playful or ecstatic gestures; The house resounded with music and sounds of merriment. Jollity and joviality may refer either to a general atmosphere of mirthful festivity or to the corresponding traits of individuals. Joviality implies a more mellow merriment generated by people who are hearty, generous, benevolent, and high-spirited: the joviality of warm-hearted friends.
You see Braveheart, mirth is commended by the Bible as warm hearted generosity in the Spirit of giving joy to others. Mirth is not the same as humor.
Reverence is good for the soul and for the Mass and the Priests and the Bishop and for the reception of Christ in His Body and Blood. rev·er·ence Audio Help /ˈrɛvərəns, ˈrɛvrəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rev-er-uhns, rev-ruhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -enced, -enc·ing. –noun 1. a feeling or attitude of deep respect tinged with awe; veneration. 2. the outward manifestation of this feeling: to pay reverence. 3. a gesture indicative of deep respect; an obeisance, bow, or curtsy. 4. the state of being revered. 5. (initial capital letter) a title used in addressing or mentioning a member of the clergy (usually prec. by your or his). –verb (used with object) 6. to regard or treat with reverence; venerate: One should reverence God and His laws.
If you do not take the Mass and it's Ministers seriously, what do you take seriously. Do you take your marriage seriously or you own family of brothers and sisters, Mother and Father or do you think thats a joke also?
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Post by guillaume on Jul 31, 2008 10:52:44 GMT
Ha well, yes, what is the point to pray the rosary and the Virgin Mary in general as a catholic Well i am being sarcastic here. Devotion to the Mother of God had always been encouraged by all the Popes and the saints. Marian devotion belongs to catholicism only. Devotion to the Blessed Mary is also a great sign of pre-destination. The rosary is also a Weapon against heresy, sins, and all bad inflluences. But if you are not convinced, maybe this will help you : 1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the rosary, shall receive signal graces. 2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the rosary. 3. The rosary shall be a powerful armour against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies. 4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtaian for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. 5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the rosary, shall not perish. 6. Whoever shall recite the rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. 7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church. 8. Those who are faithful to recite the rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise. 9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the rosary. 10. The faithful children of the rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in heaven. 11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the rosary. 12. All those who propagate the holy rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. 13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death. 14. All who recite the rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only son Jesus Christ. 15. Devotion of my rosary is a great sign of predestination. * This information was given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan by Our Lady.
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jul 31, 2008 11:05:24 GMT
14. All who recite the rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only son Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion of my rosary is a great sign of predestination.
Willy, Those who pray the Rosary give evidence of true worship of God. I want to thank you for your faithfulness to the Catholic Church Doctrines on this forum. I see in you the brother of Christ. May peace be with you all the days of your life and prosperity in all the Spiritual graces though Christ Our Lord.
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Post by guillaume on Jul 31, 2008 12:02:25 GMT
14. All who recite the rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only son Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion of my rosary is a great sign of predestination. Willy, Those who pray the Rosary give evidence of true worship of God. I want to thank you for your faithfulness to the Catholic Church Doctrines on this forum. I see in you the brother of Christ. May peace be with you all the days of your life and prosperity in all the Spiritual graces though Christ Our Lord. how, thanks a lot ! I am not brother of Christ, as I am a big sinner But God knows my whish is to come back ! God Bless you !
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Post by guillaume on Jul 31, 2008 12:12:46 GMT
Speaking of the Mass, it's a similar situation where the authorities think that the way to spread the thing is to change it. Nobody learns from history these days. Certainly not 'the Pope of the Rosary,' as I bet his fans would call JPII. I'd give the title to Pius V or Leo XIII myself. Would I be right in thinking that you are not altogether delighted by all of the Vatican II innovations? I think most of us here would have the same point of view, generally, but we would not reject the whole thing. This is mostly a Traditionalist board, but not SSPX and certainly not sedevacantist. Please tell us more about your analysis. Dear Moderator, no offence, but I do not see why some persons like - you know who, the big bird.... - are allowed to spread their evil propaganda, and why not SPPX Regarding sedevac, this is another point. Most of them are mad, but I know some who are very interesting persons. And their "spread" won't do as much damages and/or offenses as - you know who - do.
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