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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jan 17, 2024 15:56:03 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 18, 2024 11:20:04 GMT
Part of me is asking "Do we really need to go there again?" but the answer is of course, yes. Firstly, we've been here before. The case in point is the former Mgr Micheál Ledwith who was president of St Patrick's College, Maynooth between 1984 and 1995 and who was preying on the students to a lesser or greater degree. Before becoming President, he was a longterm professor of dogmatic theology there and he had also taught in St Peter's College in Wexford if I remember correctly. One might ask who knew what was going on. Secondly, one might ask if there is a link between young men being abused as seminarians (counting minor seminaries too, even if diocesan colleges in Ireland weren't quite the same as minor seminaries overseas) and priests who went on to abuse after ordination. I suspect there is an overlap. To return to the point, there is a growing awareness of abuse of female religious. This case and the horrible history of Father Rupnik underscore it, together with the cases taken by Indian nuns for rape. This is a harrowing story about a pious young woman groomed and raped by a priest attempting to initiate her into Satanism: www.leilamiller.net/blog/2022/8/2/bishop-mcelroy-should-never-become-a-cardinal (follow the links and Cardinal McIlroy's inglorious participation in the drama) I have no doubt that there are many more. Now, the question is what can we do about all this. For the moment, the answer is little other than prayer. Unless one comes across a local incidence which is different.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jan 19, 2024 9:22:59 GMT
I want to touch on the Rachel Mastrogiacomo case. The physical violation here doesn't seem on the level of others and I think Jacob Bertrand was a different type of predator. This is about context, where the abuser was trying to initiate the victim into a Satanic cult. Some of the interviewers reference Windswept House which I wouldn't regard as reliable, but I don't want to take from the girl's trauma by using that against her. I find her credible, but my question is if this sort of thing is anyway widespread? If it is, there literally is hell to pay.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jan 19, 2024 16:06:25 GMT
The Mastrogiacomo case is particularly sinister. I've looked at the various linked videos and the point being hammered home is 1. Satanism is a lot wider among the Catholic clergy than most of us suspect; 2. although they are a minority, they are overly influential because they so many of the clergy are susceptible to blackmail, by which I mean very many bishops too. One of the link videos ties several recently promoted American cardinals to Theodore McCarrick, who apparently had an unexplained trip to Argentina shortly after Pope Francis' election and later found himself coming in from the cold. I do think that McCarrick's dismissal from the clerical state, like Father Marko Rupnik's expulsion from the Society of Jesus, serves to avoid canonical trials in which many embarrassing details would emerge.
Basic conclusion, main stream media only chase up church stories, including sexual abuse stories, when the expected reports will align to a preconceived agenda.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 23, 2024 11:06:40 GMT
With regard to seminaries, it wasn't necessarily a case of staff (academics, deans of discipline/directors of formation or spiritual directors) who were abusive. Sometimes senior students (deacons and students of advanced theology) preying on junior students. I wonder how much of this was a survival from boarding school.
In relation to Ireland, I am aware that there was trouble in several seminaries and some religious houses of formation in regard to homosexual predators among the student body in the 1980s and 1990s. The presence of Mgr Ledwith as president of Maynooth was no help, but I think there were other active and latent homosexuals among the staff in several seminaries/houses of studies. There was an atmosphere where homosexual students were a protected species in a number of places.
In regard to the allegation of Satanist groups among the clergy, I will tell you about the most shocking allegation I have heard among students in Maynooth. Two very good friends of mine were students in Maynooth in the late 1980s (well, I have a lot more than two, but I am referring to a particular conversation here). They told me that the students they were studying in their first year were playing with ouija boards. This to me was an absolute rejection of all they were supposed to profess, a breach of the First Commandment. Now, I believe this was not organised and more a symptom of ignorance and immaturity. However, they were opening the wrong door and who knows if there was some kind of Luciferian 'recruiting sergeant' in their midst. This last sentence is speculation on my part, but I say it to underscore how dangerous a game the occult is.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 23, 2024 16:38:29 GMT
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 24, 2024 1:06:43 GMT
Fr Gerald Fitzgerald, who raised hte issue of clerical abuse in the US in the 1950s and was ignored by the then bishops, said he had been told that there was a subculture of homosexual prostitution among a minority of students in All Hallows (presumably this refers to the 20s 30s and 40s). The published correspondence of the novel of Liam O'Flaherty include jokes to the effect that if the clergy keep condemning his novels he will write an expose of sodomy in seminaries. O'Flaherty as a communist who admired Mussolini is not the most unbiased or clearheaded witness but he had been a CSSp novice for some years just before WWI. I suspect there has always been a problem to some extent (it may be relevant that both the references are to novitiates which recruited poorer students who may have been more vulnerable to material considerations in pursuing vocations) but that it was made much worse by the collapse of discipline in the late 60s and other considerations related to declining vocation numbers.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 24, 2024 10:21:06 GMT
Fr Gerald Fitzgerald, who raised hte issue of clerical abuse in the US in the 1950s and was ignored by the then bishops, said he had been told that there was a subculture of homosexual prostitution among a minority of students in All Hallows (presumably this refers to the 20s 30s and 40s). The published correspondence of the novel of Liam O'Flaherty include jokes to the effect that if the clergy keep condemning his novels he will write an expose of sodomy in seminaries. O'Flaherty as a communist who admired Mussolini is not the most unbiased or clearheaded witness but he had been a CSSp novice for some years just before WWI. I suspect there has always been a problem to some extent (it may be relevant that both the references are to novitiates which recruited poorer students who may have been more vulnerable to material considerations in pursuing vocations) but that it was made much worse by the collapse of discipline in the late 60s and other considerations related to declining vocation numbers. Liam O'Flaherty was a native Irish speaker, but only published Dúil in Irish which I did for the Leaving way back when. O'Flaherty's interesting views on politics and religion came into it, yet if I remember correctly, he had a Catholic funeral (I think Peadar O'Donnell died around the same time - I might be confusing the two). However, we did deal with O'Flaherty's background in the Holy Ghost Missionaries, so one always has the question was he pursuing education or was he disillusioned. On the topic of homosexual cultures in Irish seminaries, I have heard anecdotal evidence of this going on in Maynooth in the early 19th century - but regard this as hearsay.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 24, 2024 10:23:27 GMT
With regard to seminaries, it wasn't necessarily a case of staff (academics, deans of discipline/directors of formation or spiritual directors) who were abusive. Sometimes senior students (deacons and students of advanced theology) preying on junior students. I wonder how much of this was a survival from boarding school. In relation to Ireland, I am aware that there was trouble in several seminaries and some religious houses of formation in regard to homosexual predators among the student body in the 1980s and 1990s. The presence of Mgr Ledwith as president of Maynooth was no help, but I think there were other active and latent homosexuals among the staff in several seminaries/houses of studies. There was an atmosphere where homosexual students were a protected species in a number of places. In regard to the allegation of Satanist groups among the clergy, I will tell you about the most shocking allegation I have heard among students in Maynooth. Two very good friends of mine were students in Maynooth in the late 1980s (well, I have a lot more than two, but I am referring to a particular conversation here). They told me that the students they were studying in their first year were playing with ouija boards. This to me was an absolute rejection of all they were supposed to profess, a breach of the First Commandment. Now, I believe this was not organised and more a symptom of ignorance and immaturity. However, they were opening the wrong door and who knows if there was some kind of Luciferian 'recruiting sergeant' in their midst. This last sentence is speculation on my part, but I say it to underscore how dangerous a game the occult is. A friend of mine, a priest who was through two Irish seminaries, told me he believed that there a cycles in seminaries in regard to homosexual cliques in operation. This seems pertinent to the discussion.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jan 24, 2024 17:51:59 GMT
A friend of mine, a priest who was through two Irish seminaries, told me he believed that there a cycles in seminaries in regard to homosexual cliques in operation. This seems pertinent to the discussion. I think the scandal is in the fact it arises at all.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 27, 2024 23:45:30 GMT
Liam O'Flaherty received the last sacraments, so he had a Catholic funeral. I don't know about Peadar O'Donnell. Some of O'Flaherty's friends claimed he was non compos mentis when he received the last rites. I don't know enough about the circumstances to know if there is any truth in this. God knows.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 29, 2024 11:53:44 GMT
Liam O'Flaherty received the last sacraments, so he had a Catholic funeral. I don't know about Peadar O'Donnell. Some of O'Flaherty's friends claimed he was non compos mentis when he received the last rites. I don't know enough about the circumstances to know if there is any truth in this. God knows. Checked Wikipedia. Peadar O'Donnell didn't have a Catholic funeral, at least not in public. Liam O'Flaherty did. We can't say anything about his state of mind at the time, but he certainly did express strong opinions earlier in life. He was a minor seminarian in Rockwell. This is an interesting point. Most major seminaries were progressions of minor seminaries or diocesan colleges. When confronted with a very quietly dealt with scandal in Maynooth around 1990 involving exploitation of junior students by senior students, one of the questions asked within the small group who were aware of the problem was if this pattern began in the diocesan colleges, which still took boarders at the time. As I said, I have heard of similar incidents in other diocesan seminaries and in the religious student houses of three orders. Now, I will emphasise for the more part this is allegation however reliable the witnesses I have heard it from, but I can attest to the truth of what happened in Maynooth.
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Post by annie on Jan 29, 2024 13:42:08 GMT
[quote author=" Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha" Most major seminaries were progressions of minor seminaries or diocesan colleges. When confronted with a very quietly dealt with scandal in Maynooth around 1990 involving exploitation of junior students by senior students, one of the questions asked within the small group who were aware of the problem was if this pattern began in the diocesan colleges, which still took boarders at the time. As I said, I have heard of similar incidents in other diocesan seminaries and in the religious student houses of three orders. Now, I will emphasise for the more part this is allegation however reliable the witnesses I have heard it from, but I can attest to the truth of what happened in Maynooth. [/quote] A friend of mine who was a boarder in one of the diocesan colleges told me that sexual experimentation was a commonplace happening there. They attached little importance to it and only realised years later that it was such a damaging experience for many and a blight on their lives ever after.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jan 31, 2024 15:06:46 GMT
A friend of mine who was a boarder in one of the diocesan colleges told me that sexual experimentation was a commonplace happening there. They attached little importance to it and only realised years later that it was such a damaging experience for many and a blight on their lives ever after. This is not surprising, but appalling. Just as a matter of interest, one never hear's about this sort of thing on girls' boarding schools. Is there anyone aware of such reports?
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Feb 20, 2024 17:46:04 GMT
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