lynne
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by lynne on Sept 23, 2017 21:30:39 GMT
I stumbled across this forum the other day and thought I'd join it. I'm Catholic but I'm only Irish by marriage. (and I don't even live in Ireland) My family and I visited Ireland last year. It was a wonderful trip. So, can I stay?
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 23, 2017 21:51:39 GMT
YEs, you can. Welcome to the forum and we look forward to your contributions to the discussion.
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lynne
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by lynne on Sept 23, 2017 22:17:53 GMT
Great! Thank you.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Dec 5, 2023 20:06:12 GMT
Hello all, joined recently and thought I'd say hello and say a little about myself. Irish based in Ireland, long time forum reader, but guessing you would probably like more Catholics to join and post. Catholic Interests: Our Lady, Lives of the Saints (especially more recent Irish Saints, Blessed, Venerable etc.), Holy Scripture, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Improving prayer life, Universal call to holiness, Catholic social teaching, Irish Catholic apostolic associations/movements/organisations. Trying to avoid as much as I can : (not always successfully ) Church politics, politics in general, the endless observing/commenting on the decline of Irish and Western Society. Trying to be more interested in the cures and treatments, and small little pockets of rebuilding and hope and tending to the small green shoots wherever they can be found, rather than the now endless ubiquitous discussion of symptoms. More interested in small local solutions/cures/antidotes/first aid rather than just talking about the problems. We may be in a winter, but tis the time to prepare for ploughing and getting ready for planting in the Spring. God bless.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Dec 6, 2023 22:16:43 GMT
Hello all, joined recently and thought I'd say hello and say a little about myself. Irish based in Ireland, long time forum reader, but guessing you would probably like more Catholics to join and post. Catholic Interests: Our Lady, Lives of the Saints (especially more recent Irish Saints, Blessed, Venerable etc.), Holy Scripture, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Improving prayer life, Universal call to holiness, Catholic social teaching, Irish Catholic apostolic associations/movements/organisations. Trying to avoid as much as I can : (not always successfully ) Church politics, politics in general, the endless observing/commenting on the decline of Irish and Western Society. Trying to be more interested in the cures and treatments, and small little pockets of rebuilding and hope and tending to the small green shoots wherever they can be found, rather than the now endless ubiquitous discussion of symptoms. More interested in small local solutions/cures/antidotes/first aid rather than just talking about the problems. We may be in a winter, but tis the time to prepare for ploughing and getting ready for planting in the Spring. God bless. At the end of the day, we have to start with ourselves. Prayer, Fasting and Almsgiving
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Dec 17, 2023 21:08:48 GMT
Hello all, joined recently and thought I'd say hello and say a little about myself. Irish based in Ireland, long time forum reader, but guessing you would probably like more Catholics to join and post. Catholic Interests: Our Lady, Lives of the Saints (especially more recent Irish Saints, Blessed, Venerable etc.), Holy Scripture, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Improving prayer life, Universal call to holiness, Catholic social teaching, Irish Catholic apostolic associations/movements/organisations. Trying to avoid as much as I can : (not always successfully ) Church politics, politics in general, the endless observing/commenting on the decline of Irish and Western Society. Trying to be more interested in the cures and treatments, and small little pockets of rebuilding and hope and tending to the small green shoots wherever they can be found, rather than the now endless ubiquitous discussion of symptoms. More interested in small local solutions/cures/antidotes/first aid rather than just talking about the problems. We may be in a winter, but tis the time to prepare for ploughing and getting ready for planting in the Spring. God bless. At the end of the day, we have to start with ourselves. Prayer, Fasting and Almsgiving Ok. Which of them would you like to talk about?
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Dec 18, 2023 16:15:04 GMT
At the end of the day, we have to start with ourselves. Prayer, Fasting and Almsgiving Ok. Which of them would you like to talk about? The Church has set days of penance and fasting - every Friday of the year and the seasons of Advent and Lent. We can begin there with fasting. Almsgiving is bound by the capacity of the individual and on can perform the corporal and spiritual works of mercy too. Prayer is the most complex. You ask me why, but ultimately prayer should rest on the liturgy and scripture. So to pray involves setting time aside to study and reflect. I don't believe throwing oneself into devotions unless you are educating yourself about the faith is productive. Just as I think study divorced from the spiritual life isn't a good idea either. The two are intimately connected and though you can show me a great many simple people who were far advanced in the spiritual life, I would counter that there was no one among them who didn't thirst for deeper knowledge. We have no excuse.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Dec 19, 2023 3:39:14 GMT
Ok. Which of them would you like to talk about? The Church has set days of penance and fasting - every Friday of the year and the seasons of Advent and Lent. We can begin there with fasting. Almsgiving is bound by the capacity of the individual and on can perform the corporal and spiritual works of mercy too. Prayer is the most complex. You ask me why, but ultimately prayer should rest on the liturgy and scripture. So to pray involves setting time aside to study and reflect. I don't believe throwing oneself into devotions unless you are educating yourself about the faith is productive. Just as I think study divorced from the spiritual life isn't a good idea either. The two are intimately connected and though you can show me a great many simple people who were far advanced in the spiritual life, I would counter that there was no one among them who didn't thirst for deeper knowledge. We have no excuse. Do you believe many commited Catholics would not know this today? Apart from the required days what other days do you like to fast, what prayers do you like to say each day and what Almsgiving do you like to do? It's handy that in Irish we have the relevant days named for us. Dé Céadaoin (Wednesday) “the day of the first fast,” Déardaoin (Thursday) “the day between the fasts,” and Dé hAoine (Friday), “the day of the main fast. It's intresting that the Wednesday fast is making a nice comeback among some committed Catholics in Ireland, thanks to a popular pilgrimage site. And no, stating the obvious, before anyone gets upset or confused I don't mean the Wednesday fast is currently compulsory according to the Church. It's also intresting our neighbours brought back the actual Friday abstinence in the UK and removed the substitutionary option we currently have here.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Dec 19, 2023 12:07:05 GMT
Do you believe many commited Catholics would not know this today? I think it's the best kept secret in the Church. Friday barely registers as a day of penance and even committed Catholics have reversed Advent and Christmas (the third day of Christmas, St John the Evangelist, kicks off the secular post-Christmas fast, aka diet, after the month of partying in Advent). There is some adherence to Lent alright, but that's as far as it goes. If I have said there is a lack of fasting among most Catholics, I would also issue a warning about excessive fasting. I have known more than a few admirers of a 'popular pilgrimage site' who have got into health problems. In this case, I will hold up the admonition of another popular pilgrimage site - to do the sacrifices demanded by your daily duty. What I mean by that, is when fasting, to take into account one's health, occupation and one's family obligations. If fasting affects any of this, it needs to be curtailed (as does almsgiving). Likewise, if fasting affects your temper and personal charity to those around you, you need to moderate it. That still leaves plenty of scope, but jumping into fasting without consideration of yourself and those around you is a bad idea. It's handy that in Irish we have the relevant days named for us. Dé Céadaoin (Wednesday) “the day of the first fast,” Déardaoin (Thursday) “the day between the fasts,” and Dé hAoine (Friday), “the day of the main fast. That's based on monastic rules. Most of us aren't called to be Carthusians or Cistercians. As far as the Church is concerned, there is no UK. You mean England & Wales. This does not apply in Scotland or Northern Ireland. I am not sure what the regulations are in Scotland, because when I asked, I got an answer from some Monsignor to say he didn't have the resources to give me an answer. Anyway, it's different from England and Wales and I am not sure what the uptake of the Friday Abstinence is there now. I doubt it registers much. There was a tradition in Ireland of fasting and abstaining from meat on Saturday in honour of Our Lady, but I expect that's dead. I know the late Father Geoffrey Nevin in St Kevin's, Harrington St, encouraged people to keep the Ember Days too, but I don't think he ever suggested modification necessary according to state in life.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Dec 19, 2023 16:16:45 GMT
Do you believe many commited Catholics would not know this today? I think it's the best kept secret in the Church. Friday barely registers as a day of penance and even committed Catholics have reversed Advent and Christmas (the third day of Christmas, St John the Evangelist, kicks off the secular post-Christmas fast, aka diet, after the month of partying in Advent). There is some adherence to Lent alright, but that's as far as it goes. If I have said there is a lack of fasting among most Catholics, I would also issue a warning about excessive fasting. I have known more than a few admirers of a 'popular pilgrimage site' who have got into health problems. In this case, I will hold up the admonition of another popular pilgrimage site - to do the sacrifices demanded by your daily duty. What I mean by that, is when fasting, to take into account one's health, occupation and one's family obligations. If fasting affects any of this, it needs to be curtailed (as does almsgiving). Likewise, if fasting affects your temper and personal charity to those around you, you need to moderate it. That still leaves plenty of scope, but jumping into fasting without consideration of yourself and those around you is a bad idea. It's handy that in Irish we have the relevant days named for us. Dé Céadaoin (Wednesday) “the day of the first fast,” Déardaoin (Thursday) “the day between the fasts,” and Dé hAoine (Friday), “the day of the main fast. That's based on monastic rules. Most of us aren't called to be Carthusians or Cistercians. As far as the Church is concerned, there is no UK. You mean England & Wales. This does not apply in Scotland or Northern Ireland. I am not sure what the regulations are in Scotland, because when I asked, I got an answer from some Monsignor to say he didn't have the resources to give me an answer. Anyway, it's different from England and Wales and I am not sure what the uptake of the Friday Abstinence is there now. I doubt it registers much. There was a tradition in Ireland of fasting and abstaining from meat on Saturday in honour of Our Lady, but I expect that's dead. I know the late Father Geoffrey Nevin in St Kevin's, Harrington St, encouraged people to keep the Ember Days too, but I don't think he ever suggested modification necessary according to state in life. I don't agree with the generalisation that fasting is now a secret within the Church or jumping to the contrary that excessive practices of fasting and almsgiving are common among committed Catholics. I've found plenty of reminders and discussion about fasting in the Church, Church societies, organisations and spiritual reading. Similarly, I don't agree with the notion that anyone who fasted or fasts on a Wednesday in Ireland was/is necessarily monastic or somehow trying to be Carthusians or Cistercians, or that it was only for them. I vividly recall the older generation here observing fasting and/or abstinence on both Wednesdays and Fridays every week, particularly from meat, and sometimes dairy/eggs. Yes, I meant England and Wales, I should not have commented quickly in short hand on my phone, I'm more interested in Ireland. The Bishop’s conference of Scotland continues to allow individual discretion in relation to Friday penance. Yes, they are separate ecclesiastical jurisdictions, but the Catholic Church does recognise the existence of the UK. The British Embassy to the Holy See is responsible for promoting the relationship between the UK and the Holy See. So, it would not be true to say there is no such thing as the UK as far as the Church is concerned. Thankfully, most committed, positive, and supportive Catholics I've encountered in Ireland in the past and present quietly and modestly just get on with their fasting, prayer, and charity with sensibility, avoiding commentary, judgment, assumptions, generalisations or negativity about other Catholics. I prefer to focus on more constructive aspects of discussion and avoid engaging in and picking pedantic debates or competitions about things that are not the core point. While I'm more than capable of giving as good as I get and more in such exchanges, online and society are already saturated with that, and I find it less meaningful and prefer to direct conversation towards more substantive topics and the central point. The problems in the Church, internationally and with regard to Ireland and with the wider society are well known by committed Catholics, and have been discussed ad nauseam. I'm interested in supportive productive concepts, ideas, contributions, and events and news and about the faith and particularly with relation to Ireland. I've come across plenty of small green shoots and pockets of hope for Catholicism in Ireland, and much good that is being done, and would much prefer to focus on and share those in the appropriate threads and help this forum maintain that direction when I'm more confident it's possibly worth doing so.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Dec 20, 2023 15:13:41 GMT
I don't agree with the generalisation that fasting is now a secret within the Church I am specifically referring to the canonical status of Fridays other than Solemnities as a 'day of penance'. You'll find widespread ignorance of it among even informed Catholics. Everytime I bring it up, I am greeted by surprise and I have had this conversation with others too. In a particular case, I raised it with a former seminarian who reacted by saying in two institutions he attended, it was never enforced. That was my experience also - only Lent was marked by any restraint. The concept of Advent as a penitential period is virtually non-existent. I know it's a practice to undertake penances in parts of Ireland for the Holy Souls in November, but this is patchy and I suspect not near as common as it was thirty years ago, and it wasn't common then. Then consider yourself fortunate. I know a case of a devout young man who died in Dublin following a regime of intemperate fasting and I have seen others go to extremes I believe unnecessary. But aside from health, if fasting affects personal charity, then you are doing more than you are capable of and destroying any merit. I suppose it depends on what you are reading. I haven't seen plenty, at least not giving the specifics of the obligations of penance and fasting and also the limits. This may come as a surprise to you, but most Irish monastic communities of the era that named the days of the week were much stricter and the fasts referred to monastic fasting, which was never envisaged as the rule for the lay faithful I don't believe there was a marked observance of the Wednesday fast nor an extension in to dairy or eggs. The older generation did not have the same situation of taking food for granted that we do and dairy was very important in many parts of Ireland. The Holy See is a sovereign entity recognised by international law and is not the same as the Catholic Church which doesn't of or in itself recognise states. I am not being pedantic. In most cases, the Church excepts the states that are there, but the UK is very exceptional as it has two episcopal conferences instead of three and the Apostolic Nuncio to the UK is not the Apostolic Delegate to the entire UK but only Great Britain (ie, he has no ecclesiastical function in relation to Northern Ireland), where the Apostolic Nuncio to Ireland is Apostolic Delegate to the island of Ireland. This makes the UK very much a special case. I never thought that mourning the death of a misguided young man was any of the above Then you misunderstand us here. We are trying to make sense of these things in our discussions and act accordingly Then you are fortunate, but maybe this is not the right forum to engage in. We for our part have not been so fortunate and every one of us here is a practicing Catholic with wide connections in this country.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Dec 20, 2023 22:40:03 GMT
Regrettably Beinidict, it appears that the discourse has shifted towards a line-by-line engagement in ad hominem and misrepresentations, but in the interest of fostering a more accurate dialogue, and until I think it no longer necessary, it looks like I will have to in turn provide corrections to these responses in this line-by-line fashion as well. I am specifically referring to the canonical status of Fridays other than Solemnities as a 'day of penance'. You'll find widespread ignorance of it among even informed Catholics. Everytime I bring it up, I am greeted by surprise and I have had this conversation with others too. In a particular case, I raised it with a former seminarian who reacted by saying in two institutions he attended, it was never enforced. That was my experience also - only Lent was marked by any restraint. The concept of Advent as a penitential period is virtually non-existent. I know it's a practice to undertake penances in parts of Ireland for the Holy Souls in November, but this is patchy and I suspect not near as common as it was thirty years ago, and it wasn't common then. I wasn't and I don't. If this is the case, then I would suggest considering broadening your network of committed Catholics for a better perspective, and also to try being a bit less judgemental and avoid jumping to assumptions about other Catholics you interact with. I know a case of a devout young man who died in Dublin following a regime of intemperate fasting and I have seen others go to extremes I believe unnecessary. But aside from health, if fasting affects personal charity, then you are doing more than you are capable of and destroying any merit. I’m sorry to hear about your friend. That sounds much more like a mental health issue rather than the fault of fasting or Catholicism. Fasting is not meant to be like that at all in Catholicism. I can reel off lots of people who have died tragically for all sorts of reasons, I don't attempt to associate it with or subscribe it to the practices of actual Catholicism in accordance with the actual teachings of the Catholic Church. I suppose it depends on what you are reading. I haven't seen plenty, at least not giving the specifics of the obligations of penance and fasting and also the limits. It appears that your interactions may be primarily with individuals whom you perceive or assume as less informed within the Catholic community, and it seems you haven't delved into the rich discourse present in Catholic literature that elaborates on and discusses the spiritual benefits of fasting. Therefore, to enhance your own understanding and perspective, I would heartily recommend considering an adjustment in your approach to engage with a more diverse range of well-informed individuals and exploring the extensive literature available on the spiritual aspects of fasting, among many other things, within the Catholic tradition. This may come as a surprise to you, but most Irish monastic communities of the era that named the days of the week were much stricter and the fasts referred to monastic fasting, which was never envisaged as the rule for the lay faithful This doesn’t come as a surprise as I did not assert any such statement regarding it being a rule applicable to the lay faithful. Regrettably so far, your characterisation of my words seldom accurately aligns with the content of my actual statements. I hope this is an oversight and doesn't persist, or we'll have to keep having these conversations, but I'm happy to do so anytime it does. I don't believe there was a marked observance of the Wednesday fast nor an extension in to dairy or eggs. The older generation did not have the same situation of taking food for granted that we do and dairy was very important in many parts of Ireland. You are of course free to assume your own beliefs, but in reality, in my own actual experiences growing up in my locality here in Ireland, it was not uncommon to observe individuals refraining from adding milk to their porridge or substituting their favourite boiled egg at lunch on Wednesdays with some plain bread as a part of their fasting practices that day. This is just one local example among many I encountered. It's important to recognise that not everyone takes food for granted, and I would again advise refraining from making assumptions about others in this regard. Acknowledging the diversity of practices and perspectives of others is essential, as is striving to avoid making inaccurate assumptions about people's choices, experiences and practices. The Holy See is a sovereign entity recognised by international law and is not the same as the Catholic Church which doesn't of or in itself recognise states. I am not being pedantic. It has demonstrated a needlessly pedantic approach, but it appears you may not recognise the inevitable equal potential for reciprocal pedantry from others when you choose to go down that route. Before the introduction of the strawman, your initial statement suggested that, according to the Church, the UK essentially does not exist, which is, any way you attempt to cut it, an untenable assertion. Engaging in excessive pedantic arguments won't negate the inherent implausibility of such a claim. Again, I would encourage a more substantive and constructive dialogue that avoids pedantic positions for the sake of fostering a better dialogue. I never thought that mourning the death of a misguided young man was any of the above As you are aware, my reference wasn't directed at your recent appeal to emotion in a specific case. Rather, it pertained to the broader attempt at the inaccurate generalisation about the alleged excessive fasting of Catholics, presented at the same time with the contradictory assertion that fasting is a secret in the Church. The portrayal of an individual case does not substantiate the validity of your original inaccurate generalisation. Extreme cases always make for extremely poor generalisations. Then you misunderstand us here. We are trying to make sense of these things in our discussions and act accordingly Who is the "we" you reference? By which appointment do you speak on behalf of 800+ members of the forum? Are you designated as a representative for all members? The confrontational tone from your posts from the beginning does not strengthen your position. I’d dial it back; you’ll find that works better with me or anyone else, and you might get more members. Then you are fortunate, but maybe this is not the right forum to engage in. We for our part have not been so fortunate and every one of us here is a practicing Catholic with wide connections in this country. Conversely, the more efforts you make suggesting I do not participate in this forum, the more likely I will be to enjoy contributing to it. I've never been dissuaded by anyone who attempts these types of assertions and assumptions. I also won't be assuming the rest of the forum members have the same approach to new members as yourself. Again, I doubt your presumption of speaking for all 800+ members and that you are the representative of the beliefs of Irish Catholics. This forum as can be seen from its posts actually hosts a diverse range of individuals, from Catholics to atheists and various beliefs, opinions, and experiences. It's unclear who this presumed "we" is that you claim to lead and speak for. Unlike yourself, I make no assumptions and generalisations about the members here, or anyone else. I merely expressed what I do not like to engaged in, and yet, unfortunately that's the exact approach you then took, perhaps because I specifically indicated I'm not interested in this type of waste of time pissing contest. I posted in this thread because based on the previous posts, it seemed as a suitable usual thread for new members to politely introduce themselves, others to say hello welcome etc as is customary in most forums, and was previously on the thread, and then move on to engage in on-topic discussions in the actual relevant and proper threads, which is not this one. For a genuine discussion and interaction, hopefully devoid in the future of any more ad hominem and assumptions about people you don’t know, I'd suggest initiating the appropriate topic in the correct thread. This would facilitate a much more focused and meaningful conversation on the actual topic, rather than about others. Alternatively, if you have any other misconceptions and assumptions about me or inaccurate generalisations or comments to make on this, I can continue to correct them here, and demonstrate how pointless this type of interaction is when there are much better more positive subjects to discuss than other people or assumptions about them.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Dec 21, 2023 16:57:30 GMT
Note to Beinidict: You've heard it before. Something about trolls and not feeding them.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Dec 21, 2023 17:25:39 GMT
Note to Beinidict: You've heard it before. Something about trolls and not feeding them. Note to Askel: Characterising others with derogatory names reflects more on the person using such language than it does on the intended recipient.
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