Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 14:55:56 GMT
To get a break from the politics, I thought it might be useful to have a thread where we can discuss Sunday's gospel together.
Sunday March 10th 2013 - Fourth Sunday of Lent
Luke 15: 1 - 3, 11 - 32
1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them." 3 So he told them this parable:
The Prodigal Son
11 And he said, "There was a man who had two sons; 12 and the younger of them said to his father, `Father, give me the share of property that falls to me.' And he divided his living between them. 13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took his journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in loose living. 14 And when he had spent everything, a great famine arose in that country, and he began to be in want. 15 So he went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would gladly have fed on the pods that the swine ate; and no one gave him anything. 17 But when he came to himself he said, `How many of my father's hired servants have bread enough and to spare, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants."' 20 And he arose and came to his father. But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, `Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' 22 But the father said to his servants, `Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet; 23 and bring the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and make merry; 24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to make merry. 25 "Now his elder son was in the field; and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 And he called one of the servants and asked what this meant. 27 And he said to him, `Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fatted calf, because he has received him safe and sound.' 28 But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, 29 but he answered his father, `Lo, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command; yet you never gave me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your living with harlots, you killed for him the fatted calf!' 31 And he said to him, `Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 It was fitting to make merry and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 15:12:53 GMT
My own thoughts on this :
- Jesus sharply contrasted people at times, in this case Pharisees and the scribes (Dutiful Son) Vs Tax collectors and sinners (Prodigal Son)
- I believe this parable is directed at Dutiful Sons as much as Prodigal Sons, as he told this parable to in reply to the Pharisees and the scribes
- Jesus again skillfully alluded to the fact that he and Father are one in this parable.
- In the complete Chapter 15 of Luke's Gospel. Jesus replied with three parables to the Pharisees and the scribes. The preceding two parables, leading up to the Prodigal Son Parable, were the Parable of the Lost Sheep (lost far away, just like the Prodigal Son) and the Parable of the lost Drachma (lost at home, just like the jealous Dutiful Son)
"his journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in loose living." - The best place to do this would have been the City of Antioch, the Las Vegas of its day, and where a young Jew would be free from Jewish Laws and traditions.
"So he went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would gladly have fed on the pods that the swine ate; and no one gave him anything." - We should not underestimate what tending to pigs would have meant to religious Jews of that day
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 10:27:37 GMT
If anyone heard any illuminating points from their Priest's homily, or has any from their own personal study, please feel free to add them here as well. Next Sunday's gospel is John 8:1-11 'The adulterous sinner'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 14:46:06 GMT
Our priest focussed on the son who had stayed at home. He spoke of the bitterness we can feel when we see others who have had fun and games coming back to the Church and celebrated. He brought up the subject of love from God, how it is freely given and not earned by anything we have done. I needed reminding of that.
He also asked for an applause for the mums today since it's Mothering Sunday. I confess I have felt the sting there these last couple of years when they stand as I am unmarried and obviously not a mother. Last year all the women around me stood up and I felt like I was sporting the scarlet letter. Woe is me! He then thanked the mothers for their sacrifice and then, once again, reminded us, that life begins at the moment of conception and ends at a natural death, repeated it and thanked the mothers for their sacrifice.
So I left with my tail between my legs feeling quite ashamed for my moment of irritability and hurt. He's getting into quite the habit of bringing that phrase in as a teaching moment. I've heard it half a dozen times since the Vigil for Life.
He also reminded us that we need to pray for the Conclave, for a pope who will lead us pastorally and theologically through this difficult time. For the record we're still praying for Benedict our Pope.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Mar 10, 2013 16:05:57 GMT
Moments like that can be tough all right. Feeling excluded is awful.
Two things occurred to me about the Prodigal Son parable, listening to it today. The first was the sentence: "But when he came to himself he said, `How many of my father's hired servants have bread enough and to spare, but I perish here with hunger!" I wonder if this might be a reference to the Treasury of Merit and the intercession of saints?
The other was simply the words, "But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him." How often had I listened to that parable, and read it, without thinking much of that sentence. And yet today it seemed such a powerful expression of the fact that our Heavenly Father will (so to speak) jump at the slighest move we make in His direction, and come so far to meet us.
I can never listen to this parable without getting weepy. In fact, I'm weepy right now, typing this!
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Mar 10, 2013 16:08:45 GMT
I think we all have moments of irritability at Mass. For instance, the guy who stands beside me in the pew on Sundays ALWAYS strolls in about ten minutes into the Mass, and I struggle to tamp down my thoughts of censure every week.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Mar 10, 2013 17:55:36 GMT
A couple of subsidiary points come to mind. Firstly, when he says he wants to be one of his father's paid servants this is far more degrading than we would realise. For the ancient peoples, and indeed for Europeans until a couple of centuries ago, wage-labour was seen as just one step above slavery because it meant dependence in the employer; only property-owners, however small their holding, were truly free. Secondly, the point of the parable is that the resources of the father (i.e. God) are so immense that he can re-endow the prodigal son without their being appreciably diminished, or without the interests of the elder son being affected. Hence the elder does not have any reasonable cause for complaint (just as the parable of the Labourers in the Vineyard implies that the labourers who worked throughout the day are already receiving a remarkably high wage and are therefore unreasonable in demanding more). This is a reminder of the inexhaustible grace and mercy of God, and a warning against despair. The fact that Peter Hitchens is so profoundly moved by Thomas Hart Benton's grim painting THE RETURN OF THE PRODIGAL SON in which the prodigal returns to find his family have been bankrupted and dispossessed because of his desertion, reflects the extent to which Peter Hitchens' version of conservatism is haunted by despair. I often suggest that the characters of Theoden and Denethor in THE LORD OF THE RINGS reflect Tolkien's awareness of the danger of despair, and I think they are an apt parallel for Peter Hitchens. Say a prayer for him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 17:38:56 GMT
Sunday, 17th March, 2013
The Fifth Sunday of Lent and the Third Scrutiny is celebrated today
(The Scrutinies are prayers the priest, in conjunction with the congregation, prays over any unbaptised catechumens preparing to join the church at Easter.)
As its the Feast day of St. Patrick, the Gospel might be Luke 5:1-11
John 8:1-11
Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At daybreak he appeared in the Temple again; and as all the people came to him, he sat down and began to teach them.
The scribes and Pharisees brought a woman along who had been caught committing adultery; and making her stand there in full view of everybody, they said to Jesus, 'Master, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery, and Moses has ordered us in the Law to condemn women like this to death by stoning. What have you to say?' They asked him this as a test, looking for something to use against him.
But Jesus bent down and started writing on the ground with his finger. As they persisted with their question, he looked up and said, 'If there is one of you who has not sinned, let him be the first to throw a stone at her'. Then be bent down and wrote on the ground again. When they heard this they went away one by one, beginning with the eldest, until Jesus was left alone with the woman, who remained standing there. He looked up and said,
'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' ' No one, sir' she replied. 'Neither do I condemn you,' said Jesus 'go away, and don't sin any more.'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 18:13:33 GMT
My own thoughts on John 8:1-11
Feast of the tabernacles was being held in Jerusalem at this time. (John 7). Festivals, as we know, can cause many other things !
It is interesting to note that the hypocritical Scribes and Pharisees only brought the adulterous woman, and yet under the law of Moses, the man would have been just as guiltily of adultery.
I doubt if the Scribes and Pharisees were really interested in the woman, or the morality / immorality of the situation at all. I think the situation was primarily a baited trap they had set for Jesus.
They thought they had trapped Christ in a trilemma :
1. He was scornfully known as a friend of sinners, so if he stoned one, he would then be a hypocrite 2. If he said the law of adultery did not apply or should not be enforced, the Jewish leaders would also have him trapped 3. If he agreed to the stoning, the Romans had strictly forbidden the Jews to carry out any capital punishments
Only Jesus could find his way out of such an impossible dilemma, and he found a way out for both himself and the woman.
I find it very interesting that Christ began writing on the ground when the Scribes and Pharsees put him to the test. The only time he ever wrote in the gospels.
What was he writing ?, We cannot know, but only speculate.
I think he was alluding to two things by writing on the ground :
The ten commandments were “written with the finger of God” (Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10) and also as in Daniel 5, the writing was now also "on the wall" so to speak, for the scribes and the Pharisees.
Jesus had numbered the days of their kingdom and would bring it to an end; Jesus weighed them in the balances and found them wanting, and their kingdom would be divided and given to others.
As for the woman, what a moment for any of us, when Jesus says, "Has no one condemned you?", "Neither do I condemn you", "Go and sin no more"
For me, the primary concern for Jesus in this situation seems to be neither to punish, or to let off, but to put a person right.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 18:59:44 GMT
By the way, none of my own personal thoughts above are meant to replace, or be any sort of Sunday homily in any way shape or form.
This is just somewhere we can discuss the Sunday Gospel together, and I just wanted to kick off that discussion.
If anyone else has their own thoughts to share on this gospel, please feel free to add them here.
Best of all, if anyone hears any interesting points in their proper local Sunday homily, it would be great if they shared them here as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2013 19:47:51 GMT
March 24 2013 Palm Sunday of the Passion of the Lord
PROCESSION GOSPEL : Luke 19:28-40
Jesus went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem. Now when he was near Bethphage and Bethany, close by the Mount of Olives as it is called, he sent two of the disciples, telling them, 'Go off to the village opposite, and as you enter it you will find a tethered colt that no one has yet ridden. Untie it and bring it here. If anyone asks you, "Why are you untying it?" you are to say this, "The Master needs it".' The messengers went off and found everything just as he had told them. As they were untying the colt, its owner said, 'Why are you untying that colt?' and they answered, 'The Master needs it'.
So they took the colt to Jesus, and throwing their garments over its back they helped Jesus on to it. As he moved off, people spread their cloaks in the road, and now, as he was approaching the downward slope of the Mount of Olives, the whole group of disciples joyfully began to praise God at the top of their voices for all the miracles they had seen. They cried out:
'Blessings on the King who comes, in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest heavens!'
Some Pharisees in the crowd said to him, 'Master, check your disciples', but he answered, 'I tell you, if these keep silence the stones will cry out'.
- 0 -
The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ according to Luke
Luke: 23:1-49 (Shorter form)
The elders of the people and the chief priests and scribes rose and they brought Jesus before Pilate. They began their accusation by saying, 'We found this man inciting our people to revolt, opposing payment of the tribute to Caesar, and claiming to be Christ, a king'. Pilate put to him this question, 'Are you the king of the Jews?' 'It is you who say it' he replied. Pilate then said to the chief priests and the crowd, 'I find no case against this man'. But they persisted, 'He is inflaming the people with his teaching all over Judaea; it has come all the way from Galilee, where he started, down to here'. When Pilate heard this, he asked if the man were a Galilean; and finding that he came under Herod's jurisdiction he passed him over to Herod who was also in Jerusalem at that time.
Herod was delighted to see Jesus; he had heard about him and had been wanting for a long time to set eyes on him; moreover, he was hoping to see some miracle worked by him. So he questioned him at some length; but without getting any reply. Meanwhile the chief priests and the scribes were there, violently pressing their accusations. Then Herod, together with his guards, treated him with contempt and made fun of him; he put a rich cloak on him and sent him back to Pilate. And though Herod and Pilate had been enemies before, they were reconciled that same day.
Pilate then summoned the chief priests and the leading men and the people. 'You brought this man before me' he said 'as a political agitator. Now I have gone into the matter myself in your presence and found no case against the man in respect of all the charges you bring against him. Nor has Herod either, since is he has sent him back to us. As you can see, the man has done nothing that deserves death, So I shall have him flogged and then let him go.' But as one man they howled, 'Away with him! Give us Barabbas!' (This man had been thrown into prison for causing a riot in the city and for murder.)
Pilate was anxious to set Jesus free and addressed them again, but they shouted back, 'Crucify him! Crucify him!' And for the third time he spoke to them, 'Why? What harm has this man done? I have found no case against him that deserves death, so I shall have him punished and then let him go' But they kept on shouting at the top of their voices, demanding that he should be crucified. And their shouts were growing louder.
Pilate then gave his verdict: their demand was to be granted. He released the man they asked for, who had been imprisoned for rioting and murder, and handed Jesus over to them to deal with as they pleased.
As they were leading him away they seized on a man, Simon from Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, and made him shoulder the cross and carry it behind Jesus. Large numbers of people followed him, and of women too, who mourned and lamented for him. But Jesus turned to them and said, 'Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep rather for yourselves and for your children. For the days will surely come when people will say, "Happy are those who are barren, the wombs that have never borne, the breasts that have never suckled!" Then they will begin to say to the mountains, "Fall on us!"; to the hills, "Cover us". For if men use the green wood like this, what will happen when it is dry?' Now with him they were also leading out two other criminals to be executed.
When they reached the place called The Skull, they crucified him there and the two criminals also, one on the right, the other on the left. Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them; they do not know what they are doing'. Then they cast lots to share out his clothing.
The people stayed there watching him. As for the leaders, they jeered at him. 'He saved others,' they said 'let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One.' The soldiers mocked him too, and when they approached to offer vinegar they said, 'If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself'. Above him there was an inscription: 'This is the King of the Jews'.
One of the criminals hanging there abused him. 'Are you not the Christ?' he said. 'Save yourself and us as well.' But the other spoke up and rebuked him. 'Have you no fear of God at all?' he said. 'You got the same sentence as he did, but in our case we deserved it: we are paying for what we did. But this man has done nothing wrong. Jesus,' he said 'remember me when you come into your kingdom.' 'Indeed, I promise you,' he replied 'today you will be with me in paradise.'
It was now about the sixth hour and, with the sun eclipsed, a darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour. The veil of the Temple was torn right down the middle; and when Jesus had cried out in a loud voice, he said, 'Father, into your hands I commit my spirit' With these words he breathed his last.
(All Kneel and pause a moment)
When the centurion saw what had taken place, he gave praise to God and said, 'This was a great and good man'. And when all the people who had gathered for the spectacle saw what had happened, they went home beating their breasts.
All his friends stood at a distance; so also did the women who had accompanied him from Galilee, and they saw all this happen.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Mar 21, 2013 22:15:46 GMT
And of course the "dialogue" element where the audience speaks the words of the crowd, Pilate, etc are a reminder that we all did this and that to blame it on scapegoats is an evasion
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2013 14:44:59 GMT
My own thoughts on the Procession Gospel : Luke 19:28-40 - Only time I know of in scripture that Christ traveled by horseback / donkey - It also fulfilled the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. " - People spreading their cloaks on the road was a sign that they considered Jesus their new royal King, a King they had been waiting for 1000 years since David - They were so clearly joyful they tore the leaves from the trees to wave in celebration - The people may also have expected Christ to turn right when he entered Jerusalem, to where the Roman garrison was based, instead, very significantly, he turned left, to the temple and cleansed it by whip - Jesus entered Jerusalem though the Golden Gate - The Golden gate is located on the east walls of the old city of Jerusalem, leading to the temple mount. The gate is regarded as a Holy site for all faiths - Jewish (arrival of the Messiah) and Christian (entrance of Jesus on Palm Sunday). The Muslims created a cemetery in front of it. Photo here : www.templemount.org/ggate.jpgThe existing gate was built in the 6th/7th C AD over the ruins of the second temple gate, and sealed since the 16th century. The Ottoman Sultan, Suleiman the Magnificent, sealed off the Golden Gate in 1541. While this may have been purely for defensive reasons, in Jewish tradition, this is the gate through which the Messiah will enter Jerusalem, and it is speculated that Suleiman the Magnificent sealed off the Golden Gate to symbolically reject / prevent the Messiah's entrance. There is also some Christian tradition that the Golden Gate is where Our Lady's parents, St. Joachim and St. Anne embraced when the childless couple learned that St. Anne was pregnant with Our Lady. There is also a nice little tradition concerning the cross that can be found on all donkey's backs. It's said the shadow of the cross fell across the donkey’s back, and since that time, donkeys have carried the mark of the cross as a sign of love from God. The reward the humble donkey received has forevermore been shown for all to see.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 15:38:35 GMT
And of course the "dialogue" element where the audience speaks the words of the crowd, Pilate, etc are a reminder that we all did this and that to blame it on scapegoats is an evasion A timely reminder we could in fact have been any of the participants or bystanders that day, we should ask ourselves honestly who would we have been most like if we had been there . . . Pilate : The bureaucrat, who’s poor decisions previously caused two disastrous riots in Jerusalem, and who was on his last chance with Rome, and who knew what he as doing was wrong and that Jesus was innocent. Even his wife urged him not to do it, yet he went ahead to please the mob. Herod : The Jewish king who was only interested in Christ from a personal entertainment point of view. Barabbas : The one truly guilty of the things Jesus had been accused of. Simon from Cyrene (Then capital of Libya) : The Black African Jew, and visitor to the city, caught up in the event as a bystander, and therefore the Roman Soldiers probably felt it was a safe choice to seize him and order him to carry the cross. This incident turned Simon into a Christian, he’s briefly mentioned later on in the New Testament (Acts 13:1) The Criminals : The one who mocked him, and the one who believed in him and joined Jesus in paradise. The Centurion: The Roman army officer, roughly equivalent to the rank of Captain, that followed his orders, but realised after the event that Jesus was innocent and truly the Son of God. He was the first Gentile convert.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Mar 23, 2013 21:33:12 GMT
One of the darker little discussions of Pilate I know of is found in the book LIBERTY, EQUALITY, FRATERNITY by James Fitzjames Stephen. This is a reply to John Stuart Mill's ON LIBERTY (and quite effective in pointing out many of the implications of Mill's theories which Mill himself is too squeamish to endorse, such as a right to commit suicide or to act as a pimp if one's employees freely enter that employment) so it is often seen as a voice for traditional moral values; but in fact Stephen's underlying beliefs are just as secular and utilitarian as Mill's. Stephen's view that firm and civilised government is preferable to abstract liberty if the latter leads to chaos and barbarism had been shaped by his experiences as a judge in India, and in his discussion of Pilate he quite explicitly equates the Romans in Judea and the British in India as bearers of higher civilisation. He states quite bluntly that a British local administrator, informed by competent local authorities (read: Caiaphas & Co) that some man was widely believed to be the predicted Imam of the Muslims or Guru of the Sikhs and that this belief had the potential to cause bloodshed and unrest even if the man himself was perfectly peaceful in his intentions, would not only be blameless in acting as Pilate did, but would be blameworthy if he did not. (One of Stephen's critics, who replied that such an administrator would be frozen out of polite society and have to resign from his clubs, unintentionally reinforces Stephen's point about one law for citizens and another for subjects, since he implicitly accepts that it is unthinkable that the administrator might be formally prosecuted.) Pilate as described by Josephus was quite ruthless, and one possible reading of his actions might be that he was at least partly motivated by unwillingness to get mixed up in some annoying native squabble. It's interesting that Eastern and Western Christianity have tended to differ in their attitudes to Pilate (partly because the Easterners developed a more exalted view of the temporal ruler). Western renderings of Pilate traditionally presented him as an arch-villain, Easterners have a more lenient view - I believe that our Ethiopian Coptic friends who worship on Sundays at Synge Street CBS even regard him as a saint (though the Egyptian Copts do not).
|
|