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Post by Young Ireland on Dec 2, 2018 20:38:02 GMT
The Pro-Life Campaign provides a list of TDs who voted in favour of attempts to restrict the abortion licence. This is something to bear in mind at the next election. It also cites Kate O'Connell, with the sensitivity for which she is renowned, describing claims that children have been known to survive abortions as "fairytales" (after the case of Melissa Ohden, who visited Ireland before the referendum, was referenced in debate - basically O'Connell is calling Ohden a liar). Not to be outdone in evil, Lisa Chambers declared that women never regret having abortions and the idea that some do is "makey-uppy" invented to promote a political agenda. Oddly enough, the PLC does not mention Simon Harris's rant (also in the Dail debate) about how "women's rights are human rights and they were denied for 35 years until the people stood up and said no more". In other words, he is saying that there is a human right to abortion (and by implication, abortion pretty much on demand). The sight of these miserable specimens of humanity echoing the debating points of the most extreme pro-abortionists in America is a reminder that many of our beloved TDs, having decided which way the cat is going to jump, rel on whatever pressure group they are now allied with to fill up the vacancy within their skulls. (Honesty compels me to add the same might be said of some of the TDs who supported the 8th Amendment in 1983). prolifecampaign.ie/main/portfolio/detail/30-11-2018-see-how-your-td-voted-on-humane-amendments-to-abortion-bill-and-read-more/Meanwhile Leo Scaradkar the Lyin' King appears to be staying out of the debate and leaving the dirty work to his hyaenas. If you don't get the reference,check the links below: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scar_(Disney)www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkU23m6yX04 It's ironic to see them using the same sort of rhetoric they excoriated when it came from the Brexiteers, namely that the people have not only spoken, but support the most extreme version possible, regardless of the consequences. Though in fairness to the Brexiteers, none of them actually want people to die from Brexit, whereas thousands will certainly die from abortion being legal in Ireland.
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 2, 2018 21:17:15 GMT
The references in the Mass today (for the first Sunday of Advent) to mankind being enslaved by sin, in exile and looking for the coming of Jesus the Deliverer really bite in this grim year: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xtpJ4Q_Q-4
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 9, 2018 20:59:44 GMT
Let us just take a moment to note that even some pro-abortion doctors are complaining that Simon Harris's mad rush to have the abortion killing machine in operation by 1 January is utterly reckless and unworkable and may endanger women's lives, which the pro-aborts claim to be so concerned about. Kate O'Connell (FG TD,Dublin Bay South) covered herself further in disgrace during the concluding debate on the Baby-Butchery Bill by equating perinatal hospices with Magdalen asylums and proclaiming "You lost. We won. Get used to it" in a manner strikingly resembling Dante Riordan in the Christmas dinner section of Joyce's PORTRAIT OF THE ARTIST. In the Senate Ivana Bacik proudly recounted her long career as abortion facilitator, glorying in that which should be her shame. Here is something to bear in mind at the next general election: prolifecampaign.ie/main/portfolio/detail/30-11-2018-see-how-your-td-voted-on-humane-amendments-to-abortion-bill-and-read-more/prolifecampaign.ie/main/portfolio/detail/how-did-your-td-vote-on-the-abortion-bill/
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 9, 2018 21:06:44 GMT
A nasty little article in VILLAGE magazine discussing the prospects for legalised abortion in Northern Ireland with some sad accounts of voting in border areas in the referendum. One detail is that the famously Protestant village of Drum in Co Monaghan actually voted NO, albeit by a slim majority, when so many Irish Catholics passed by on the other side like the priest and levite in the parable of the Good Samaritan. The author of the article thinks if you oppose killing babies that makes you a "fundamentalist". Nuff said. villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2018/06/abortion-on-the-march/
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Post by maolsheachlann on Dec 20, 2018 12:16:00 GMT
I'm quite frustrated at the rhetoric of pro-lifers in Ireland who can't seem to accept that we are now in a minority and keep trying to portray the referendum as some kind of imposition by the political elite on the ordinary people of Ireland.
We really need to snap out of this notion that the people are on our side, on this issue and on others. The people are not on our side. We need to accept that we are a minority and deal with that reality.
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 20, 2018 18:46:10 GMT
I agree, Maolsheachlainn. The problem is that the idea that the people are on our side becomes a substitute for thought - indeed a preventative of thought, since it assumes the sheeple have just been led astray and can be undeceived by shouting louder. It also reflects an unwillingness to face up to the extent to which the referendum reflected an older ongoing process of moral corruption and consequent blindness - a refusal to grasp that large numbers of people have come to see abortion as desirable because it keeps them from having to make drastic changes in society and in their own individual lifestyles. (It also of course avoids facing how past crimes and blunders by the faithful have helped to bring this about). It also reflects a "chosen people" form of nationalism, and the tendency of older people who grew up in a society where Catholic predominance was taken for granted to see this as the 'normality' which somehow will "naturally" return. (Just as until recently many older unionists in the North saw Brookeborough's era as "normality" in that sense.)
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 20, 2018 18:49:40 GMT
That said, it does appear that some Yes voters at least now realise that they have been sold a pig in a poke and are getting more radical abortion legislation than they expected. This of course is too late to make any difference, and still raises the question of how they could be manipulated like that in the first place, when they were specifically warned. The whole structure of society has changed in ways that made them WANT to believe the lies.
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Post by brigid on Dec 20, 2018 18:49:58 GMT
I agree with you, the majority of the voters voted for abortion, it was spelt out in the referendum what the law would be like. It was not imposed on the populstion by the machinations of politicians. We need to be aware that we are in a minority.
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Post by brigid on Dec 20, 2018 18:55:20 GMT
I agree, Maolsheachlainn. The problem is that the idea that the people are on our side becomes a substitute for thought - indeed a preventative of thought, since it assumes the sheeple have just been led astray and can be undeceived by shouting louder. It also reflects an unwillingness to face up to the extent to which the referendum reflected an older ongoing process of moral corruption and consequent blindness - a refusal to grasp that large numbers of people have come to see abortion as desirable because it keeps them from having to make drastic changes in society and in their own individual lifestyles. (It also of course avoids facing how past crimes and blunders by the faithful have helped to bring this about). It also reflects a "chosen people" form of nationalism, and the tendency of older people who grew up in a society where Catholic predominance was taken for granted to see this as the 'normality' which somehow will "naturally" return. (Just as until recently many older unionists in the North saw Brookeborough's era as "normality" in that sense.)
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Post by brigid on Dec 20, 2018 18:59:34 GMT
I am an older person, I never enteertained this chosen people type of nationalism even when I was young and heard it expressed. I remarked to a friend nearly 50 years ago that eventually abortion would be legal here as elsewhere, which horrified the person to whom I said it. Despite that opinion I am very disappointed in my fellow citizens who voted for abortio including, sadly, friends and family.
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 21, 2018 22:17:56 GMT
So President Higgins finally signed the abomination into law yesterday. I suppose it is a slight relief that they didn't hold the first "procedure" at Newgrange to mark the winter solstice, as a gesture towards "Celtic spirituality". www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy_157m9MjQ
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 7, 2019 0:19:32 GMT
In this month's (January 2019) ALIVE Senator Ronan Mullin has a column in which he quotes a named gynaecologist as testifying before the Oirechtas Committee on Health that Ireland has a much lower abortion rate than Scotland (with a similar population size) and that this shows -what? - that there is a significant unmet need for abortion in Ireland! This is recommended to the attention of anyone naive enough to believe that voting to repeal the Pro-Life Amendment could lead to abortion being "safe,legal and rare". Here's an example of such naivete: www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/2019/01/looking-back-on-2018-and-repeal-the-eight/ In the new issue of the CATHOLIC VOICE Richard Greene of the Alliance in Defence of Marriage and Family compares the present abortion setup to a totalitarian regime and calls for mass protests on the grounds that this is the way to bring down such regimes. This is quite shockingly naive: (1) It assumes that there is only a small elite upholding the present state of affairs and that the mass of the population are discontented with it, rather than being apathetic or actively supporting it. We did have a referendum recently to test this proposition; some of us may remember it. The government is accepted as legitimate - as "our" government - by the bulk of the population (this is one reason why economic cutbacks after 2008 were accepted without protests on anything like the scale found in Greece, for example). Quite frankly, although we are talking about a bunch of creeps and crooks and we can expect intensified social pressure and discrimination, it's an outrage to those who suffered under real totalitarian regimes to say we live in such a situation. If we did, Mr Greene - and probably your humble servant and anyone writing on or reading this board - would already be in jail or worse. (2) Mass demonstrations and protests only bring down a regime when it is already crumbling and losing its grip, so that its armed forces and bureaucrats are unwilling to fight for it because they are afraid they will lose and be punished. Here are some examples of mass protests which were crushed by force. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_1953_in_East_Germanyen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989 Fantasies about "We the people will win" need to be put to one side if we are to achieve anything at all.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 20, 2019 17:19:23 GMT
This article from the ATLANTIC about liberal and secular pro-lifers at the annual March for Life in Washington DC may be of interest. Readers may also note some of the assumptions which the reporter brings to the subject: (a) That opposition to abortion on the basis of scientific evidence is confined to these groups. In fact, throughout the history of the pro-life movement mainstream pro-lifers have been arguing on a scientific basis about when life begins until they are blue in the face. (b) That the appearance of secular pro-lifers at the march is a recent development. Although the groups she is interviewing may have only appeared recently, there is a long history of "atheists for life" and groups like PLAGAL (Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians) participating. The absence of liberal politicians may have something to do with the fact that since the 1970s the Democrats have increasingly used abortion as a political litmus test, so that there are now only 3 pro-life Democrats in Congress (no senators) although some others support restrictions; partly for this reason many former Democrats now vote Republican for the same reason many formerly Democrat abolitionists held their noses and voted Republican in the 1850s. www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/01/march-life-secular-liberal-pro-lifers-feel-welcome/580837/
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 20, 2019 17:41:10 GMT
In this month's (January 2019) ALIVE Senator Ronan Mullin has a column in which he quotes a named gynaecologist as testifying before the Oirechtas Committee on Health that Ireland has a much lower abortion rate than Scotland (with a similar population size) and that this shows -what? - that there is a significant unmet need for abortion in Ireland! This is recommended to the attention of anyone naive enough to believe that voting to repeal the Pro-Life Amendment could lead to abortion being "safe,legal and rare". Here's an example of such naivete: www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/2019/01/looking-back-on-2018-and-repeal-the-eight/ In the new issue of the CATHOLIC VOICE Richard Greene of the Alliance in Defence of Marriage and Family compares the present abortion setup to a totalitarian regime and calls for mass protests on the grounds that this is the way to bring down such regimes. This is quite shockingly naive: (1) It assumes that there is only a small elite upholding the present state of affairs and that the mass of the population are discontented with it, rather than being apathetic or actively supporting it. We did have a referendum recently to test this proposition; some of us may remember it. The government is accepted as legitimate - as "our" government - by the bulk of the population (this is one reason why economic cutbacks after 2008 were accepted without protests on anything like the scale found in Greece, for example). Quite frankly, although we are talking about a bunch of creeps and crooks and we can expect intensified social pressure and discrimination, it's an outrage to those who suffered under real totalitarian regimes to say we live in such a situation. If we did, Mr Greene - and probably your humble servant and anyone writing on or reading this board - would already be in jail or worse. (2) Mass demonstrations and protests only bring down a regime when it is already crumbling and losing its grip, so that its armed forces and bureaucrats are unwilling to fight for it because they are afraid they will lose and be punished. Here are some examples of mass protests which were crushed by force. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_1953_in_East_Germanyen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989 Fantasies about "We the people will win" need to be put to one side if we are to achieve anything at all. Another example of why Richard Greene's proposed tactics are likely to get nowhere. Although the entry linked below (like others on Wikipedia) is biased towards the pro-choicers, it does make it fairly clear how the late 80s/early 90s attempts of Operation Rescue to shut down abortion clinics by using mass protest tactics based on the 1960s Civil Rights movement were crushed by a combination of brutal police action, legislation and lawsuits. The sort of protest tactics he advocates only work when active support for the evil being protested is already in decline (e.g. confined to certain regions) and tolerated only because of apathy. When it enjoys wide and determined support, such tactics will be met with brutal counterforce (and when a radical fringe of protestors respond with violence, they are used to tar the whole movement - King insisted that his demonstrators should undergo active training to make sure they could restrain themselves. If the civil rights protests had been tried by Southern blacks in the 1920s the organisers would have ended up hanging from the nearest tree branch and would have got two lines in the NEW YORK TIMES. Similarly, there were attempts by Northern Ireland nationalist politicians in the late 1940s and 1950s to use Gandhian protest tactics which got nowhere. It worked in the late 60s but not earlier for a variety of reasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Access_to_Clinic_Entrances_ActTo sum up: Before we have this sort of thing: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vDWWy4CMhEwe first need to produce and propagate this sort of thing: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Web007rzSOI
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 20, 2019 17:56:38 GMT
The story of Tim, who survived an abortion and lived 21 years (although severely handicapped, partly because of the abortion) with the help of remarkable foster parents. As Jonathan van Maren points out, it is remarkable that this story appeared in the IRISH TIMES, which I call MOLOCH'S HERALD for reasons familiar to anyone acquainted with its abortion coverage. Of course that paper will treat this story as an isolated curiosity, while stories which suit the pro-abort "narrative" it presents to its readers will be endlessly recalled and rehashed. (One problem Irish pro-lifers have is that we have the institutional memories of goldfish.) Perhaps Kate O'Connell will dismiss Tim's life as a "fairy story" as she did with Melissa Ohden. Of course Simon Harris's legislation with its definition of abortion as a procedure intended to end the child's life, is designed to avert such oversights as the failure to give Tim a lethal injection while he was still in the womb. If I was unfortunate enough to live in the constituencies represented by Deputies Harris and O'Donnell, I would give them the very lowest preference possible, no matter what other candidates were running. www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/tim-survived-an-abortion-going-on-to-live-21-beautiful-years
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