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Post by guillaume on Sept 14, 2010 6:10:15 GMT
without any problem whatsoever... I forgot, Bishop Nourrichard is the one who decided to destroy pro-trad Abbé Michel in his parish of Thiberville, Normandy, France. Obviously Nourrichard had made his choice. So do us !
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 14, 2010 13:41:11 GMT
The heading is slightly misleading. It gives the impression that the bishop attended one of the illicit "women's ordinations" purporting to be carried out within the Catholic church; in fact it refers to the ordination of female anglican clerics, which is something different.
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Post by guillaume on Sept 15, 2010 10:23:43 GMT
Sorry Hiber but Nourrichard took part in the ceremony AS A BISHOP of the Catholic Church ! You need proof ? Here we go : Nourrichard with two anglican bishops during the ordination. More ? Nourrichard taking part of the procession with women "priests" behind him.. Should I remind you again that it is the same bishop who attacked the semi-trad abbé Michel in Thiberville ? This person shall join the Anglican church and leave the Catholic. Period.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 15, 2010 11:15:05 GMT
To say he "took part" in the ceremony implies that he actually participated in the ordinations or received communion. It is fairly common practice nowadays for Catholic bishops and priests in vestments to attend Protestant ceremonies as a gesture of sympathy /ecumenism. This is certainly problematic IMHO because it blurs the major doctrinal differences between us and the Protestants, but there's still an important distinction involved that we shouldn't lose sight of.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 15, 2010 15:13:10 GMT
I just thought that I never saw display of the habits of the religious clergy in the Dublin Archdiocese quite to match the presence of these religious at the first 'ordinations' of female ministers of the Church of Ireland in Christchurch in 1990.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 9:13:59 GMT
Yes, indeed - I'm ntot disagreeing with Guillaume entirely. There are quite a few Catholic clerics who covertly or not so covertly yearn to see the Catholic Church go the same route as the Anglican in this matter, and for all I know Bishop Nourrichard is one of these. What I am saying is that we should not exaggerate. BTW I remember when using the threat of schism archbishop Lefebvre used to say ironically "So long as we remain faithful to the Church no treatment is too harsh for us, but if we were to leave the Church we would at once become "separated brethren" for whom, by the standards of modern-day ecumenism, nothing is too good" (I paraphrase). It seems that to judge from Bishop Nourrichard's contrastign attitudes to Thiberville and to the anglicans, that he had a point.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 16, 2010 10:09:11 GMT
An observation based on the photographs. It is not so long ago since we would automatically see the difference between Anglican and Catholic bishops. I had to look carefully to identify Mons Nourrichard.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 17, 2010 10:55:36 GMT
I am not so sure I could tell the difference by visual means alone, especially since Anglican bishops gave up wearing gaiters and masons' aprons.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Sept 17, 2010 11:10:03 GMT
Not only that, but Anglican ministers seem to be mimicking Catholic priests' vestments.
What is the current Anglican position on Free Masonry? In the 1980s, Anglicanism and Presbyterianism both seemed to be distancing themselves from it.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 17, 2010 11:21:33 GMT
Anglicans generally distance themselves from Masonry - liberals because it is seen as establishmentarian and an old boys' patronage network, evangelicals because they see it as unChristian. Anglo-Catholics should in theory take the Catholic line on it, but historically some of them have been attracted to it by love of ritual and fondness for secrecy. It used to be common for Church of England bishops to be masons. (For one thing senior members of the Royal family were prominent Masons - Edward VII and George V certainly was, and I believe the Duke of Kent is the current Grand Master or whatever they call it - ad it would not have done to disapprove of something patronised by royalty.) Nowadays it is extremely rare. Quite a lot of provincial C of E clerics would be masons, but it is not as common as it used to be and it's no longer seen as helpful for preferment. The long-term tendency has been for the C of E to become more Catholic in ritual and vestments while becoming more Broad/Liberal in theology. A mainstream nineteenth-century anglican would see their rituals as virtual papism and their doctrines as barely Christian. The evangelicals are a different case - I don't know what their liturgies are like but their mindset is more and more like the non-established free Churches. The demise of the Book of Common Prayer has removed the principal thing the three groups had in common.
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