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Post by Noelfitz on Aug 29, 2008 13:37:34 GMT
Can an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist bless a person who approaches him/her at the distibution of Communion and seeeks a blessing?
What should be done?
I know that a lay person can bless, as in the grace before meals.
I would welcome views.
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Post by kieron on Sept 19, 2008 14:06:40 GMT
I don't think an extraordinary minister should bless people, any more than I should bless my neighbour at the sign of peace. Neither should extraordinary ministers be given the Host before the "Behold the Lamb of God". This is forbidden in order to prevent laypeople holding up the Host for worship, as such a gesture confuses the roles of the priest and the laity.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Sept 19, 2008 15:58:42 GMT
Can an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist bless a person who approaches him/her at the distibution of Communion and seeeks a blessing? ... I know that a lay person can bless, as in the grace before meals. Noel, I don't see how a lay person can give a blessing in the context you describe. That is a faculty of priesthood. Someone saying the Grace before meals is leading a group prayer; quite a different thing. It's another example of the confusion that can be caused by EMHCs, though I accept the practical reasons for having them.
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 17, 2010 12:29:31 GMT
Reviving this thread for a minor though related point. At the Ash Wednesday Mass today the extraordinary ministers, as well as the priest, were administering the ashes. Is there anything irregular about this? (I should add that there was a reasonable case for necessity given that the church was pretty full and some of the congregation will have had to leave fairly rapidly to get to work).
I may add that I prefer the older form of the blessing: "Remember Man thou art but dust and unto dust thou shalt return" is directly linked to the form of the sacramental. Perhaps the idea of accentuating the positive when so many in the congregation are lukewarm/don't get the whole picture had somethign to be said for it; but "Repent and believe the gospel" doesn't have the same glorious specificity.
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Post by guillaume on Feb 17, 2010 13:26:35 GMT
Reviving this thread for a minor though related point. At the Ash Wednesday Mass today the extraordinary ministers, as well as the priest, were administering the ashes. Is there anything irregular about this? (I should add that there was a reasonable case for necessity given that the church was pretty full and some of the congregation will have had to leave fairly rapidly to get to work). I may add that I prefer the older form of the blessing: "Remember Man thou art but dust and unto dust thou shalt return" is directly linked to the form of the sacramental. Perhaps the idea of accentuating the positive when so many in the congregation are lukewarm/don't get the whole picture had somethign to be said for it; but "Repent and believe the gospel" doesn't have the same glorious specificity. Of course, Hiber. The old formula is more meaningful. Regarding lay people giving the ashes, no way ! I am going to do research to see if it is admitted and permitted (likely, unfortunatly). It is once again an other invention of Vatican II, and there is no justification for it, even if the church is crowed (bless them !). Regarding going to mass everyday, it will be a real penance for me, as I stand less and less the NO, their liturgical inventions and the role of lay people. The active role of lay people is ALSO, according to me, one of the reason of the lack of vocation to priesthood, but that belongs to another thread.
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Post by guillaume on Feb 18, 2010 16:01:44 GMT
Hibernicus, I have made some researches regarding extra ministers administrating the ashes. Actually I didn't find specific entries regarding this issue. However, It seems that this practice should be allowed ONLY by members of the clergy consecrated, according to a formal website specialist in liturgical ceremonies. If the church if full (good for her...) the celebrant shall be helped by another priest or a deacon. They also should wear the violet/purple stole.
While I was looking at "extraordinary ministers" via different websites, I was once again "surprised" that the EM option (lay people giving holy communion) SHALL be only extra-ordinary and in very specific circumstances. It is very common now in every parish to have an extraordinary minister giving the communion EVEN is the church is not crowed. Means that the priest and the bishop ARE NOT applying the CANON LAW and diverse instructions given by the Vatican.
Hibernicus, you have witness a liturgical abuse. Do not bother to complain to your bishop. He certainly agree with all of this.
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Post by melancholicus on Feb 23, 2010 23:58:52 GMT
Guillaume, do you have a link to that website?
Licit or not, this practice is a logical extension of the practice of extraordinary ministers of holy communion. If they can distribute the sacred host, why not also the ashes?
I was at Ash Wednesday Mass here in Tacoma at the orthodox (but not very liturgically sound) parish of St. Charles Borromeo. The church was packed to the rafters, and the celebrant was assisted in the distribution of the ashes by a whole crew of lay ministers, nearly all of them female.
Blessing the ashes, however, can only be done by the priest. Lay persons lack the faculty of blessing, so they can neither bless ashes nor make holy water, nor bless objects.
I was once a seminarist for the FSSP, during which time I received the minor orders of porter and lector. The order of lector confers the power of blessing bread and first fruits, but this power lapses one year after one has ceased to study for holy orders. Accordingly, I have not attempted to use it since then. As those in lector's orders are capable of blessing only bread and fruits, they cannot bless persons. Nor can any lay person 'bless' another. The introduction of this practice seems to me ideologically motivated, i.e. to emphasize the priesthood of the baptized against the priesthood of the ordained, as though they were equal. But the priesthood of the ordained differs not only in degree but also in kind from the priesthood of the baptized, and they must not be equated.
Another example of the usurpation of clerical functions by ideologically-primed laity: when I was on parish placement in Gateshead, UK, I regularly assisted the parish priest during his daily (Novus Ordo) Mass. I sat in choir, dressed in soutane and surplice. I was aghast at the sight of laywomen not only administering the chalice, but purifying it afterwards in the manner of a subdeacon. Relating my experience once I had returned to seminary, it gave rise to the grim joke that in order to purify the chalice after communion, one must be either in subdeacon's orders, or else a lay woman.
The parish priest, by the way, is a devout and holy man, and he was as dismayed by the liturgical shenanigans of the mafia of extraordinary ministers as was I.
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Post by guillaume on Feb 24, 2010 9:29:09 GMT
It is a website in the French language : www.ceremoniaire.net/, very well documented and explaining in details all ceremonies for both rites (1962 and 1969). I do not know if there is an equivalent in the english language. Maybe this one : www.catholicliturgy.com/
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