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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Feb 9, 2024 18:25:21 GMT
I want to ask about the current state of some organisations which were once staples of Church life in Ireland:
1. The Legion of Mary;
2. The Knights of St Columbanus;
3. The Pioneer Total Abstinence Association; and
4. The Society of St Vincent de Paul.
That's not an exhaustive list.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 14, 2024 13:07:35 GMT
I just happened to be in Navan yesterday. Ok - this might sound anachronistic, but the Irish National Foresters Band meet in the Catholic Young Women's Society Hall. There is no longer a chapter of the Irish National Foresters in Navan, but the band survives and the CYWS hall is still standing withing any CYWS to use it.
It is just a symbol of how rich social life used to be but no longer is.
In regard to the four insitutions you mention, I think the problem that the PTAA has is not the temperance aspect, but rather devotion to the Sacred Heart which is an integral part of the Pioneers.
The SVP are thriving, but a lot of volunteers are not religiously motivated.
I would think the Legion of Mary is very much an aging organisation.
I can't comment on the Knights of Columbanus, but I think the same could be said about it as the Legion.
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Post by annie on Feb 14, 2024 13:56:16 GMT
I understand that the Legion is still active in the centre of Dublin, distributing catholic literature ans miraculous medals from its book-barrow and engaging in conversation with whoever wishes to do so. Personal contact in this way is the recommended way to interact according to the handbook. The distribution of the miraculous medals has led to a decrease in drug use, criminality and vandalism, according to reports.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Feb 14, 2024 15:05:33 GMT
I think all four organisations are active to some degree, but very much reduced from the past. This is what the question is about.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 20, 2024 11:10:36 GMT
The Knights of Columbus is very active in the US and the Knight of St Columbanus are based on this. You also have the Knights of St Columba in Britain and the Knights of the Southern Cross in Australia/New Zealand. The purpose of all this was to combat discrimination against Catholic workers by the Free Masons and in places the Orange Order (the Knights of St Columbanus were founded in Belfast for this reason). This is less of an issue now. I think the problem stems from less of an awareness of what the order is for is one reason.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Feb 20, 2024 23:45:43 GMT
St Joseph's Young Priests Society is another one worth mentioning from an Irish point of view.
I have direct experience with a few of the organisations mentioned and know quite a few members in the others. There are some very dedicated members still keeping these organisations afloat. They face the same usual issues as in any other organisation, combined with the challenges faced today by all Catholic organisations in Ireland.
Their real strength and purpose come, of course, from their spirituality; otherwise, all of them could appear to be dryly replaceable by secular NGO equivalents.
The main issue these organisations face today, in my opinion, is a lack of interest, promotion, and support from many in the Irish hierarchy. For example, it wouldn’t be hard for any diocese to organise an annual recruitment fair to promote Catholic organisations like this in the diocese and to mention, support, and promote them more often.
Setting the usual grumbles aside, it’s truly amazing what just a few dedicated members and prayer can achieve in these organisations in each diocese. What it personally can do for their volunteers is often as great as anything the volunteer does for wider society. Ireland is gripped in the midst of its worst-ever epidemic of spiritual poverty.
I’m involved because I’ve received so much from the faith and sacraments over the years, I felt I needed to give something tangible back. It can’t be all take and no give. Matthew 7 was ringing in my ears: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven... I never knew you; depart from me.” Christ makes himself constantly available to us, perhaps we can make ourselves available in turn. (I’m not saying that must be everyone’s motivation; I’m just honestly sharing my own, and I’m not looking for a debate on this thread.)
It’s also often overlooked that rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, these organisations are tried, tested, and approved, with all the structures and approvals one needs already in place, and hundreds of thousands of hours of experience built up behind them. Not to mention the amazing achievements and history some of them have, from effectively closing the largest red-light district in Europe to having one-third of Irish adults as members of the pioneers in the '50s. (Imagine the countless lives and families saved in Ireland from the abuse of alcohol and from addiction, and the spiritual effects in Ireland of that level of simple prayer, sacrifice and reparation to the sacred heart of Jesus; imagine the effects and those who could be saved today, even if much fewer? And no, I’m not anti-alcohol and neither is the PTAASH.) These are just two major examples; there are countless others.
I'm not looking to start a debate about specific aspects of any of these organisations, I'm hoping this forum can be used to encourage more Catholics to join their local Catholic organisations in Ireland. Even if you only have an hour or two at most per week to dedicate, you can still be of great help to one of these organisations in your local diocese. If you haven’t done so already, for anyone reading this, please consider trying out a few of them and finding one or two that are a good fit for you and your spirituality. You won’t regret it.
I’ll leave some quotes from Saint Mother Teresa, who says it all much better.
• “Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.” • “Do not think that love in order to be genuine has to be extraordinary. What we need is to love without getting tired.” • “The most terrible poverty is loneliness, and the feeling of being unloved.” • “I prefer you to make mistakes in kindness than work miracles in unkindness.” • “I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples.” • “God doesn't require us to succeed, he only requires that you try.” • “I can do things you cannot, you can do things I cannot; together we can do great things.” • “Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.” • “If you can't feed a hundred people, feed just one.” • “Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you.” • “People are unrealistic, illogical, and self-centered. Love them anyway.” • “I do not pray for success; I ask for faithfulness.” • “We must know that we have been created for greater things, not just to be a number in the world, not just to go for diplomas and degrees, this work and that work. We have been created in order to love and to be loved.” • “I used to believe that prayer changes things, but now I know that prayer changes us, and we change things.”
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 21, 2024 10:23:02 GMT
To follow on from Devotus Immaculatae:
1. Absolutely agree on the St Joseph's Young Priests' Society as a candidate for this thread;
2. Absolutely agree that each of the five: St Joseph's, Legion, SVP, PTAA and Knights have a number of dedicated members keeping it alive;
3. Aboslutely agree that with dry spirituality, these are no better that NGOs. I think this is a big challenge for the Society of St Vincent de Paul at present - lots of members in it just see it as a social service for the poor rather than something spiritual. I know I am not speaking for all of the members - I know very spiritually minded SVP volunteers, including one contributor here (not me). I think it was the NGO mentality that destroyed Veritas. The body was the object of patronage rather than recruitment on relevant skills (and religious commitment) and I would see in the bureaucracy that devastated Veritas a reflection of the bureaucracy that has a strangle hold over the German Church at present. I've been talking to insiders in Veritas too since the news broke and there is a parallel between the lay leadership there and what you get in better resourced German Church institutions - theological liberals who have no business accountability spending money on their hobby horses under the assumption that the funding will last indefinitely.
Now, when Annie refers to some of the work in the inner city by the Legion and it's effects on the communities (and I've heard of the Knights acting in a similar way, though less in promotion devotions), it shows the need for spiritual weaponry. I would have thought that the drugs menace would give new relevance to the Pioneers, but they need to be able to say why devotion to the Sacred Heart is necessary (just remember Dublin Taxi drivers have consistently replaced the statue of the Sacred Heart which was on O'Connell St, now Cathal Brugha St, as a protection to them so it's not without a following; also Alcoholics Anonymous require their people to accept a higher power). Likewise, the Capuchins still operate Father Mathew's pledge with their Sacred Thirst Pin, but this was never as visible or organised as the Pioneers.
Another thought, discrimination against Catholics which the Knights were set up to combat hasn't gone away, it's just mutated into another form and there is still a need to reckon with this.
To return to the St Joseph's Young Priests, they also need diligence in seeing the money they raise is well spent on worthy candidates because I have heard some folklore about where some of these funds went.
To close, the reflections from St Teresa of Calcutta above are most appropriate. BTW, sometimes the greatest opportunities lie in joining decaying organisations because someone dedicated can do a lot very quickly without the type of politics that goes on in something thriving or expanding.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Feb 21, 2024 17:17:07 GMT
Ireland is gripped in the midst of its worst-ever epidemic of spiritual poverty. Very true.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Feb 21, 2024 17:29:33 GMT
To follow on from Devotus Immaculatae: BTW, sometimes the greatest opportunities lie in joining decaying organisations because someone dedicated can do a lot very quickly without the type of politics that goes on in something thriving or expanding. And from Devotus Immaculatae: More or less the same point here. If you start something new, you need to build the infrastructure and get the requisite permissions and recognition. Also, you can often find that in active, thriving organisations, you can't achieve an awful lot because of competing personalities and politics, but in bodies where they are grateful for anybody, you could find yourself in the driving seat very quickly.
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Post by Devotus Immaculatae on Apr 5, 2024 16:47:13 GMT
I just wanted to share something that struck me over the week as refreshingly positive in Catholic meetings I've attended locally for some of the aforementioned Irish Catholic organisations in this thread. In contrast to the all too typical "Someone else needs to do something about something I think needs doing" style meetings we're all familiar with, all of the regular local Catholic organisation meet ups I've attended over the last few years have been overall very positive and productive in their own small way. Some group prayer and agreeing to work together, each doing small realistic and perhaps unglamourous, but specific and easily achievable things locally, that do make a difference, and do help keep the show on the road and alive. Not to be underestimated. Very good for the head and the heart. Yes, it's often the same few unsung people that bother to at least temporarily get off the screens, and out of the house, turn up, and actually do something . . . but it still continues to makes a difference. In Christo et Maria.
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