|
Post by assisi on May 5, 2018 15:46:47 GMT
I don't think he is rationalising away a sense of guilt. He believes that maturity is achieved by deliberate transgression, by accepting only those rules that are authentic for you rather than subscribing to others' shibboleths. (Anyone who transgresses Fintan's "authentic" rules, on the other hand, is a very bad child.) Second-hand Sartre, basically. That, if I may be bold enough to say, is a good description of a spoiled brat!
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on May 5, 2018 18:33:09 GMT
Kevin Myers is more the spoiled brat type - Fintan O'Toole is more the boring old pedant who is still living on the thrilling memory of saying boo to John Charles McQuaid (at a safe distance). His recent column lamenting that Conor McGregor by acting like a boor and a lout is giving Crumlin a bad name and contrasting his own youthful hero Phil Lynott as a more authentic class of rebel is a good example (and personally I quite like Phil Lynott's music and can't stand Conor McGregor) - and he was blind to the point that someone made in a subsequent letters column, that given the role of Phil Lynott's drug problem in his early death, some of the objections Fintan O'Toole applies to McGregor as a role model apply equally to Lynott. I once spoke to a German academic at an Irish university who told me that he had come to work in Ireland because the "generation of 1968" radicals who had come to dominate German academia had replicated all the faults of the older generation against whom they rebelled - authoritarianism, intolerance, pedantry and nepotism (i.e. jobs for the boys and girls). It seems to me that Fintan O'Toole has, quite unconsciously, done the same.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on May 8, 2018 20:49:20 GMT
Fintan O'Toole's column this week argues that the problems of our health service (particularly its lack of accountability) derive from the fact that it's not really a single service at all, but took its present form due to a bunch of vested interests (the churches - Catholic especially - the doctors, etc). If only we had a single service free of interest groups and run for the general good, all would be well.
Now I'm not saying our health service is perfect or anything like it, or that the churches and medical groups' responses in the 40s and 50s were not flawed - but I would like to see Fintan O'Toole backing up his claim with some evidence of how countries with a single-payer system, like Canada and Britain, have more accountable health services. The NHS may have advantages over our set-up, but my exposure to the British media doesn't lead me to think that it is universally accountable now, or that it was so before the Tory government started playing games with their "internal market" in the 80s. (Its ethos then was much ore "doctor knows best", in both socialist and Tory variants.)
This is one of O'Toole's flaws; articulating a beautiful theory without reference to empirical data (except for Ireland).
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Jun 6, 2018 21:10:31 GMT
This week Fintan O'Toole had a column calling for the abolition of the national anthem on the grounds that (a) it's neither musically nor poetically of any aesthetic value (b) it represents an outdated militaristic vision of Irishness, with reference to the Saxon foe etc. What is really striking is that he didn't say what he would like it replaced with. My feeling is that he has difficulty with the whole concept of a national anthem because he doesn't like the concept of a national identity which stretches across generations and so cannot be completely remodelled at any one time. It is noteworthy that he doesn't mention the strongest case for keeping the anthem - that people are used to it and changing it would cause more confusion. As for the Saxon foe (who does not feature in the few lines in Irish that are all most people know or sing of it), this simply reflects the historical reality that the Irish state originated in an armed conflict with Britain. We may regret this, but that is how it happened. The Dutch national anthem was composed during the sixteenth-century uprising against Spanish rule led by William the Silent; is O'Toole going to say it should be dropped because Spain and the Netherlands are now equal partners in the EU? If the anthem was going to be replaced, I would suggest the old Limerick rugby anthem "There Is An Isle". It has the advantages of being largely non-specific (the "isle" is part of Limerick but could refer to the whole of IReland), being slightly archaic and therefore giving the impression of timelessness. I should say I am not from Limerick myself: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlJFs0MDhA
|
|
|
Post by Young Ireland on Jun 6, 2018 21:21:57 GMT
This week Fintan O'Toole had a column calling for the abolition of the national anthem on the grounds that (a) it's neither musically nor poetically of any aesthetic value (b) it represents an outdated militaristic vision of Irishness, with reference to the Saxon foe etc. What is really striking is that he didn't say what he would like it replaced with. My feeling is that he has difficulty with the whole concept of a national anthem because he doesn't like the concept of a national identity which stretches across generations and so cannot be completely remodelled at any one time. It is noteworthy that he doesn't mention the strongest case for keeping the anthem - that people are used to it and changing it would cause more confusion. As for the Saxon foe (who does not feature in the few lines in Irish that are all most people know or sing of it), this simply reflects the historical reality that the Irish state originated in an armed conflict with Britain. We may regret this, but that is how it happened. The Dutch national anthem was composed during the sixteenth-century uprising against Spanish rule led by William the Silent; is O'Toole going to say it should be dropped because Spain and the Netherlands are now equal partners in the EU? If the anthem was going to be replaced, I would suggest the old Limerick rugby anthem "There Is An Isle". It has the advantages of being largely non-specific (the "isle" is part of Limerick but could refer to the whole of IReland), being slightly archaic and therefore giving the impression of timelessness. I should say I am not from Limerick myself: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlJFs0MDhAI think that Ireland's Call would be a good choice, given that it is already well known by the public and does appeal to a national identity while being unlikely to offend any group. Also, the lyrics are much easier to learn than Amhrán na bhFiann, and would spare us the unedifying spectacle of people who mumble the anthem because they don't know the words.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 7, 2018 9:26:42 GMT
I had a letter on the subject published. www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/a-new-anthem-for-a-new-ireland-1.3520280Personally, I have given up on the whole concept of national identity. The sort of rubbishy civic nationalism on offer right now isn't even worth getting out of bed for, in my view. Ireland is no longer a nation, but a zone. Globalization is unstoppable. We may as well give up the pretence.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 7, 2018 9:29:01 GMT
As far as I remember, he does mention the appeal to tradition, only to dimiss it.
Personally, I think this is the best reason to keep the Soldier's Song. I don't like our national anthem OR our national flag. But think of all the funerals and other occasions they have featured in now. Destroying traditions is painful to me. I would keep both.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 7, 2018 10:36:15 GMT
This week Fintan O'Toole had a column calling for the abolition of the national anthem on the grounds that (a) it's neither musically nor poetically of any aesthetic value (b) it represents an outdated militaristic vision of Irishness, with reference to the Saxon foe etc. What is really striking is that he didn't say what he would like it replaced with. My feeling is that he has difficulty with the whole concept of a national anthem because he doesn't like the concept of a national identity which stretches across generations and so cannot be completely remodelled at any one time. It is noteworthy that he doesn't mention the strongest case for keeping the anthem - that people are used to it and changing it would cause more confusion. As for the Saxon foe (who does not feature in the few lines in Irish that are all most people know or sing of it), this simply reflects the historical reality that the Irish state originated in an armed conflict with Britain. We may regret this, but that is how it happened. The Dutch national anthem was composed during the sixteenth-century uprising against Spanish rule led by William the Silent; is O'Toole going to say it should be dropped because Spain and the Netherlands are now equal partners in the EU? If the anthem was going to be replaced, I would suggest the old Limerick rugby anthem "There Is An Isle". It has the advantages of being largely non-specific (the "isle" is part of Limerick but could refer to the whole of IReland), being slightly archaic and therefore giving the impression of timelessness. I should say I am not from Limerick myself: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlJFs0MDhAI think that Ireland's Call would be a good choice, given that it is already well known by the public and does appeal to a national identity while being unlikely to offend any group. Also, the lyrics are much easier to learn than Amhrán na bhFiann, and would spare us the unedifying spectacle of people who mumble the anthem because they don't know the words. Young Ireland, if you read the comments under the Fintan O'Toole article, you'll see that derision of Ireland's Call is a recurring motif. Admittedly, people who comment on newspaper websites are a special breed, but I think it might be indicative of general feeling. I've only ever heard the song mentioned to be ridiculed (with the exception of your post).
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Jun 7, 2018 19:57:49 GMT
The thing about Ireland's Call is that it was written for the occasion with the specific aim of being inoffensive, which is why the Tim Pat Coogan style of nationalist dislikes it so much. (I don't mention TPC at random; he recently wrote to the IRISH TIMES calling for Amhran na bFiann to replace Ireland's Call at rugby matches on the grounds that IC is anodyne and nothing will satisfy the Unionists.) I have no problem with the tricolour flag, which is a standard international design. The problem with the anthem is that the passions aroused in its time were aroused by the English-language version, but the Irish version has replaced it so completely few people know it. Maybe Fintan O'Toole might prefer THE RED FLAG, which was written by an Irishman (who wanted it sung to the tune of THE WHITE COCKADE). At least that is old enough to have the slightly timeless quality an anthem should have. Or perhaps Fintan would prefer Panti Bliss to rustle up something new as an expression of modern Ireland? One problem with writing a new anthem would be copyright.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 7, 2018 20:09:28 GMT
I don't like the tricolour because:
1) It is unoriginal and not particularly appealing, aesthetically.
2) It has associations of Jacobinism and radicalism.
3) It's inherently negative. It represents peace between the orange and the green. I'm all for such peace, but it's quite an uninspiring ideal in itself.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 7, 2018 20:28:03 GMT
Whatever the national anthem, I think it's a shame that it's used so seldom. It was great when it used to be broadcast at closedown on RTE. Who could object to more ceremony in everyday life?
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Jun 9, 2018 14:09:44 GMT
If you think the ideal of peace/reconciliation between Orange and Green is merely "negative" you should have spent some time in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Personally, I like the old green flag with a gold harp, but the tricolour is established and people are used to it. (It's also worth bearing in mind that most European countries have tricolours or similar designs. Not just Europe either - I've seen occasional reports of Ivory Coast tricolours - which are orange-white-green in reverse order - being burned on loyalist bonfires by mistake.) I agree it's a pity the anthem's not played more often. The same trend is visible in Britain, BTW; at one point they used to end the showing of a film in cinemas by playing the anthem, but this is never done now. I wonder has the same happened in France or other continental countries? (Germany is a special case, because Deutschland Uber Alles has embarrassing undertones of aggressive nationalism and irredentism; they only sing the third verse invoking "unity and law and freedom/for the German Fatherland". Personally I think they might have done better to adopt the old East German anthem, which is about Germany rising from the ruins to rebuild herself, and IMHO has a better tune.) www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1CyPjQQTAMIt is rather unfortunate, given that the lyrics are about rejecting war and nazism, that the Pioneer rallies in the video are so reminiscent of the Hitler Youth...
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 9, 2018 16:41:22 GMT
I mean "negative" in the literal sense of celebrating the absence of something rather than the presence of something.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 9, 2018 18:28:58 GMT
When I was on honeymoon in Bavaria, I don't remember seeing the German national flag anywhere. The Bavarian flag was all over the place.
|
|
|
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 11, 2018 11:25:36 GMT
When I was on honeymoon in Bavaria, I don't remember seeing the German national flag anywhere. The Bavarian flag was all over the place. You see the German federal flag a bit more in Bavaria during World Cup or Euro finals, but the Bavarian flag or sky blue and white colours are more common. Check out BMW colours too that is Bayerische Motor Wagen, ie Bavarian Motor car. In Franconia and Swabia they even prefer their provincial flags and colours to the Bavarian state flag. Also, Bavarian radio closes with the Bavarian state Song, the German national anthem and the Ode to Joy every night
|
|