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Post by hibernicus on Mar 11, 2013 21:38:49 GMT
The ROSA group may be a Socialist Party (i.e. Militant) front since I notice Cllr Ruth Coppinger was among the speakers at their recent meeting (and the name is obviously a reference to Rosa Luxemburg who is a hero for Trots).
Several of the far-left groups have been linking the abortion and austerity issues for some time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 21:47:57 GMT
Yes well I'm going to nag you again to write to the Catholic newspapers because you have a memorable name and a talent for writing. That's more than half the battle. Get yourself in there Maolsheachlann, you could do a column no bother. I was surprised at the turnout, all those groups together and they could only manage a few hundred. It was devious of them to throw the abortion issue in with the economic situation, had there been thousands you couldn't tell who was supporting what. Which way will the silent majority go is the question. I sometimes read boards.ie and politics.ie when I should be ironing instead and find it so depressing. I think it's important to remember that most people have familes and obligations that mean they can't rant on the internet of an evening. Ahem. So the discourse as shaped by the media and internet is not necessarily reflective of 21st century Ireland. We have to hope and rail against it, come what may. I agree with Louise. I think it is most likely that the majority favour abortion in certain circumstances (which is still wrong of course), though not favouring abortion on demand. In other words, neither pro-lifers or pro-choicers have a majority (though sadly I think that the momentum is with the latter  ) Well hello there Young Ireland, where have you been hiding?!  It seems they have the momentum because that's what the media says is happening. We have to be aware of that. They may have some momentum but that's because a lot of us are rooted in our belief and not ringing Joe Duffy to tell him about it. I know that in some rare and difficult circumstances a lot of people will agree with abortion but that's not what will happen in reality. The question is how smart and effective the pro-life groups and the likes of us are in educating people on the outcome of that "safe and rare abortion" myth as the Yanks used to pledge. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 21:51:02 GMT
The ROSA group may be a Socialist Party (i.e. Militant) front since I notice Cllr Ruth Coppinger was among the speakers at their recent meeting (and the name is obviously a reference to Rosa Luxemburg who is a hero for Trots). Several of the far-left groups have been linking the abortion and austerity issues for some time. Austerity, widespread grievance and singling a vulnerable section of society out for violence. I'm having flashbacks to history class at school. Plus ca change. |
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Post by hibernicus on Mar 11, 2013 23:19:05 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 12, 2013 9:07:51 GMT
I didn't see the letter, but read the article he refers to which did not impress me. For example, it failed to state there were different abortion regimes in East and West Germany before unification - one very broad and one relatively restricted. Guess which model was taken after unification?
The writer barely touched on Belgium, which was about the last European country to legalise abortion. What's the state of play in Luxembourg these days?
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 15, 2013 13:21:20 GMT
By the looks of things, Youngireland, the Irish Life League are mirroring Dickie Williamson's own departure from the pixies.
How ironic that professed Irish militant nationalists allow themselves to be manipulated by an unreconstructed British imperialist.
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Post by hibernicus on Mar 15, 2013 20:59:52 GMT
Here we see an Irish pro-abortion campaigner warning her cronies not to get involved in conspiracy theories about Opus Dei when the enemy (i.e. us) is in plain sight. Note also how she jeers at references to "abortion on demand" while at the same time making it clear that that is exactly what she advocates and she despises those who stop at anything less. This advice applies to our side as well - there should be less attention paid to super-secret pro-abort conspiracies and more to the plans which the pro-aborts are announcing in broad daylight on their own websites and media - the IRISH TIMES, for example. I offer this repulsive link in the spirit of "Know thine enemy" www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2013/mar/15/abortion-ireland-opus-dei-catholic |
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Post by hibernicus on Apr 27, 2013 11:06:16 GMT
Today's IRISH DAILY MAIL has an interview with Eoghan Murphy, FG TD for Dublin South-East, in which he takes a very outspoken pro-choice position. Some significant points:
He claims the Savita case may discourage overseas investment as some executives are reluctant to come and live in Ireland over fear of not being able to get abortions. (This may actually be true, given the extensive media coverage it has received abroad - much more so than the Gosnell case. Nevertheless this is really ruthless scaremongering and a very dangerous button if the pro-choicers press it.).
He says that while the government is right to legislate it does not go far enough "because we're not addressing problems like fetal abnormality, ectopic pregnancy, cases of rape or incest". Ectopic pregnancy was always stated at the time of the 1983 referndum to be one of the "exceptions". I am not aware of any problems ever being raised over it; I personally know women who have had operation for ectopic pregnancy. This is pure scaremongering.
He calls for a referendum so that these hard cases can be tackled (presumably to remove 40-3-3). He denies he is pro-choice but says "No one favours abortion, but does a State have the right to tell a woman who has to put up with everything around this issue herself - physically and personally and emotionally and mentally? Do we have a right to tell her what she can or cannot do in certain circumstances? No, I do not think we do.
A woman's body is her own. I see myself as a liberal guy on this. I would be closer to the LEft position on this". (IRISH DAILY MAIL Saturday April 27th p.18).
What this man is in fact advocating is abortion on demand while hypocritically denying he is pro-abortion or pro-choice, this of course is exactly what he is. I did not endorse the YD pledge not to vote for FG, because these are circumstances under which an individual FGer might be the lesser of two evils, but the converse is that greater efforts should be made to defeat Fg pro-choicers that others, because it might still influence the party. So if you are a Dublin SE voter, remember this at election time and give Eoghan Murphy your very last preference, below even the Monster Raving Loonies if they are standing.
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Post by hibernicus on Apr 29, 2013 22:12:39 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 30, 2013 8:09:09 GMT
Just glanced through politics.ie
I don't agree with what was done on the Labour deputies, but they were pretty foolish to confide in a stranger. Aodhán Ó Ríordáin's attitude to non-Dublin people is...interesting. If someone said the same thing about immigrants, the deputy would be after them for hate crime. No Labour TD in a rural constituency will thank Aodhán for these comments.
But, I would have expected as much from Aodhán. The bigger the mouth, the easier it is to insert the foot.
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Post by Young Ireland on Apr 30, 2013 17:10:35 GMT
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Post by hibernicus on May 1, 2013 7:15:41 GMT
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Post by hibernicus on May 2, 2013 22:47:47 GMT
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Post by hibernicus on May 3, 2013 18:52:45 GMT
One of the more startling things I have heard of (in private conversation) is people who claim to believe in only restricted abortion but dismiss, out of hand the prediction that this Bill will lead to abortion on demand. Given that the pro-choicers are openly calling for exactly that, and given the ways matters developed in Britain, America and elsewhere, I don't see how anyone who wants to think can fail to realise this. The trouble is that so many people want to let the media do their thinking for them because the alternative is too troublesome.
I remember how Doris Manly compared the No vote in the 1986 divorce referendum to a salmon-leap; live fish swim against the current, only dead fish go with it. The trouble is that most people's natural state is inertia. To be a pro-lifer in present-day Ireland requires a continuous effort - it's so much easier to go with the flow.
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Post by hibernicus on May 4, 2013 17:09:45 GMT
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) 
It seems they have the momentum because that's what the media says is happening. We have to be aware of that. They may have some momentum but that's because a lot of us are rooted in our belief and not ringing Joe Duffy to tell him about it.
