Abortion 2013.

[Deleted]

Time for a new thread on the events happening this year methinks.

Did anybody read the press release from YD about the pictures of Savita stuck to their office with excrement?

www.youthdefence.ie/newsletter2.php?nav=n-31935

Could you do that to a photo of a woman whose welfare you apparently cared about? And it seems from video footage that it was men who did it. They need to be taken over their mother's knee for behaving like that, no matter their age.

In addition FF have all of a sudden grown a conscience. Or can count votes.

www.thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-fianna-fail-abortion-794612-Feb2013/

[hibernicus]

I wonder if the anarchists of the Workers Solidarity Movement, who systematically defaced Youth Defence posters with red paint recently, had anything to do with this? It is certainly reminiscent of their general levels of civility and tolerance.
Of course if some lunatic did the same to a pro-abortion group it would be all over the front pages of the IRISH TIMES as "proof" that all pro-lifers are fascists.

[Deleted]

Can you order postcards from the Pro life Campaign please? This time they want you to sign a card to each of your local TDs and send them back freepost to the office. They will send them on, they want to keep track of how many are being contacted.

[Deleted]

Just to start us off in a spirit of truth for 2013 I am including this article about Kermit Gosnell written by Niamh Uí Bhriain on Lifesite. I think it's important to put this at the beginning of the thread so every person who reads this forum, sympathiser or not, cannot say they were not warned about what abortionists do for a living. It's no wonder in a world like this the Pope feels the need to get on his knees and pray for us, we deserve a second flood for letting this happen and I hope we don't get the Pope we deserve but the one he prays for us.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-perverse-morality-that-facilitated-gosnells-house-of-horror


"(Life Institute) - It takes a particularly horrific crime to make a U.S. District Attorney describe the scene of the felony as a ‘house of horrors’. But, given what has now emerged about the carnage that took place in Kermit Gosnell’s abortion clinic, it seems that the DA, Seth Williams, may actually have been restrained in his choice of words.

The 281-page report from the Grand Jury investigation into Gosnell’s Philadelphia practice makes for difficult reading. I’ve been a pro-life activist most of my life, but the descriptions of how babies and mothers were butchered in this filthy abortion clinic were so disturbing, I literally couldn’t sleep that night. The photographs accompanying the report show the aborted children who were left lying about the clinic. They are simply heartbreaking.

It’s the kind of evil that makes you hug your own children closer; a litany of horror beyond our understanding. How much cruelty exists in the heart of a human being who can carry out such monstrous acts?

Dr Kermit Gosnell opened his abortion clinic in 1979. He made millions from killing babies. The Grand Jury used stark, simple language to describe his practise.

“This case is about a doctor who killed babies and endangered women,” they wrote. “What we mean is that he regularly and illegally delivered live, viable, babies in the third trimester of pregnancy – and then murdered these newborns by severing their spinal cords with scissors. The medical practice by which he carried out this business was a filthy fraud in which he overdosed his patients with dangerous drugs, spread venereal disease among them with infected instruments, perforated their wombs and bowels – and, on at least two occasions, caused their deaths. Over the years, many people came to know that something was going on here. But no one put a stop to it.”

The investigators heard evidence from a clinic worker, Tina Baldwin, who said that Gosnell once joked about a baby who was writhing as he cut its neck: “That’s what you call a chicken with its head cut off.” There are many, many other such horror stories.

But the Grand Jury report is explicit in other ways too: it spells out that Gosnell was allowed to continue with decades of gruesome killing because a political decision was made to abandon regulation of abortion clinics.

So the failure to protect mother and babies wasn’t just about lack of regulation or poor co-ordination between various agencies. This was a political decision taken in order to protect the abortion industry.

The report states that in 1993 “... the Pennsylvania Department of Health abruptly decided, for political reasons, to stop inspecting abortion clinics at all. The politics in question were not anti-abortion, but pro. With the change of administration from Governor Casey to Governor Ridge, officials concluded that inspections would be ‘putting a barrier up to women’ seeking abortions. Better to leave clinics to do as they pleased, even though, as Gosnell proved, that meant both women and babies would pay.”

It’s difficult to read that paragraph without concluding that those politicians who made this appalling decision - most likely behind closed doors and without informing the public - should not be tried alongside Gosnell and charged with reckless endangerment. What they did was downright criminal, and they must shoulder their part of the blame. As more than one commentator has pointed out, on the watch of pro-abortion politicians, beauty salons and hairdressers were better regulated than abortion clinics.

The U.S. media has, of course, downplayed or ignored the involvement of pro-abortion ideologues in causing this house of horrors to happen. (The Irish media, for their part, have just ignored the Gosnell story, not wishing to let the truth about the abortion industry negatively impact on their push to have abortion legalised in this country.)

The Grand Jury report pulls no punches, and the anger and disgust of the investigators is evident in every line. But, while their revulsion is doubtlessly sincere, there is a confused morality underpinning it, because the investigators, despite all they had seen and heard, found it necessary to re-affirm a ‘right’ to abortion.

This is clearly contradictory and illogical. If it’s wrong to kill children, their age shouldn’t matter. But the law is perverse - and has warped morality to the point where the horror inflicted by people like Gosnell becomes inevitable.

Gosnell was killing babies in a filthy clinic - and he breached the legal time limit for child-killing in the state of Pennsylvania - but for most of the thousands of children that died at Gosnell’s hands, the law was fully behind him. Gosnell sought out the most lucrative part of the abortion business; late-term abortions. And while he broke the letter of the law, the spirit of the law had established his right to kill babies for profit. For Gosnell, it was then just a matter of bending the rules.

The report details how large, born-alive babies - at seven and eight months gestation - breathed and moved before Gosnell slit their necks or severed their spinal cords. It describes in sickening detail how Gosnell and others joked about the size of the babies they were about to execute, and sometimes even played with them before they killed them. Anyone with any sense of morality would be appalled by this sickening revelation.

But yet a great many people have allowed themselves to be persuaded that abortion is morally justified, and placate their consciences by pointing to time-limits and so-called restrictions. This is a perverse morality, because it’s nonsense to argue that at five months and thirty days a child can be killed - and that one day later it’s murder to kill that same human being. The truth is that the only way we can ensure that the law never again turns a blind eye to the horror revealed in Philadelphia is to restore the right to life of all unborn children and to bring an immediate halt to legal abortion.

Meanwhile, the abortion industry has not been called to task for what happened in Gosnell’s clinic for more than thirty years - even though the Grand Jury found that the National Abortion Federation had visited the practise, and that, while its inspector had found it to be filthy and inadequate, she didn’t share that information with the authorities. So mother and babies continued to die, in conditions that would literally make your heart weep.

In the same week that Gosnell and his co-workers were charged with murder, U.S. President Obama spoke of his continued support for legal abortion. It should have come as no surprise to seasoned observers - this is the man who talks up compassion while supporting late-term abortion and voting against the Born Alive Act.
He supports the abortion industry, who support late-term abortionists like Gosnell, and who are now attacking Ireland’s pro-life laws with everything they’ve got. Their greatest ally is the Irish media who are pathetically eager to publish Planned Parenthood’s demands for ‘safe, legal abortion’ which they claim is a woman’s ‘right’.

They conveniently overlook that Gosnell is being charged with the botched-abortion death of 41-year-old Karnamaya Mongar, a Nepalese refugee, and that the Grand Jury also heard evidence that he caused the death of at least one other woman and caused serious injury - including perforation of the cervix and the uterus - to many others. Former clinic workers have also accused him of performing abortions on “underage children” against their will if their mothers asked him to, and of performing other abortions without consent forms.

And these are the people who are meant to be supporting women’s rights? The charade - and the carnage - needs to end now."





The fact that he played with them has got to me. I can't believe the evil.

Anybody pro-abortion who read these boards, can you defend it now, can you? Would you hand that man the scissors after he played with the foetus, just because the mother asked for the abortion, would you? That is what you're supporting, you think you're doing women a favour, well you are not, defend us against the likes of him, stop colluding with him by thinking abortion is a human right. Read that report and then come back here and defend it.

I am so angry that people worked in that clinic and saw what was happening and went back the day after like it's a job. I can hardly fathom that we live in a world where that is considered a legal option. Where officials and politicians pass it off to keep votes and protect an ideology. I can hardly believe that nurses and doctors didn't knock his block off and call the police. How can a physician's assistant or nurse or anaesthetist not step between a doctor with a scissors and a baby and stop him??? What is wrong with people???

So yes, I want this at the start of the thread to remind us when we all, naturally, get a bit whiny about tactics and campaigns and ineffectual this that and the other that this is what we're up dealing with, people who play with them before they kill them, it's powers and principalities people.

[Deleted]

Savita's husband has responded to the YD office attack.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/keep-savitas-name-out-of-abortion-row-husband-29096789.html

[hibernicus]

One point about the Kermit Gosnell story is very relevant. He was able to get away with his activities for so long because the Democrat state administration under which he lived refused to support any form of regulation for abortion clinics on the grounds that such measures as regular inspections, bulding regulations etc amounted to harrassment and an attempt to make it more difficult for women to get abortions.
Since American pro-choicers have a significant input into the movement here, it is not surprising to find that the radical wing of the pro-choicers are busily holding up Canada (where the existing abortion laws were struck down as unconstitutionally restrictive and there has been no political will to pass new laws, so that there are in practice no restrictions at all) as the ideal for Ireland to follow, and proclaiming that any restrictions at all on the absolute "right to choose" are a Trojan horse for pro-lifers. We are even seeing Nurse Cadden (the 1930s-1950s backstreet abortionist whose methods led to the death of at least one women patient as well as the infants killed) rehabilitated in some circles as a feminist martyr.

[hibernicus]

Apparently the government has told the Council of Europe it will legislate for the X Case by July. This makes sense from their point of view - the longer they wait, the more time for opposition to gather. I'm surprised this story hasn't attracted more attention.

www.rte.ie/news/2013/0308/375675-government-x-case-legislation/

[Deleted]

That big huge march last week in the city centre, was it International Woman's Day, for X legislation included a plethora of groups and a few hundred "up to a thousand" turned up.

Anyway, SIPTU are involved now too. www.siptu.ie/media/pressreleases2013/fullstory_17017_en.html

So for those of you who know the union or pay your dues to them maybe you make your voice heard. Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference. Did SIPTU ballot its members on this?

[maolsheachlann]

Thanks for this, Louise.

I have just sent an email to the HR department of my employer asking how I can stop my subscription to SIPTU.

I also intend to send a circular email to SIPTU members in my job telling them that I have left the union, and why.

[maolsheachlann]

I have now left SIPTU but I'm not sure about the circular email, I have never seen such an email before and I don't like to break precedent, but I will tell people I know.

Maybe you should write to the Irish Catholic about this? I am sure lots of Catholic SIPTU members would be very interested.

[Deleted]

Mar 11, 2013 17:04:09 GMT maolsheachlann said:

I have now left SIPTU but I'm not sure about the circular email, I have never seen such an email before and I don't like to break precedent, but I will tell people I know.

Maybe you should write to the Irish Catholic about this? I am sure lots of Catholic SIPTU members would be very interested.

Yes I am not sure the circular email is a good idea, I think the list may be the property of SIPTU or something along those lines.

Would you write to the Catholic Voice and the Irish Catholic about it? You have the best name in the world for getting published. Maybe include the HR response, did they say why they pushed for this without asking their members? I am not in SIPTU and don't know their background, how friendly are they with Labour?

[maolsheachlann]

I am a member of SIPTU but not very active, I've never been to a meeting (though I did reluctantly join a picket line some years ago. Well, I wasn't going to pass a picket, and I wasn't going to just take a day off, so what else could I do?)

My correspondence with them today was just to do with the practicalities of leaving. I mentioned my motive at one point but there was no response.

I presume all the unions are hand-in-glove with Labour.

I've written to the Irish Times about this. If they don't publish it, I'll try elsewhere.

[Deleted]

Mar 11, 2013 21:15:25 GMT maolsheachlann said:

I am a member of SIPTU but not very active, I've never been to a meeting (though I did reluctantly join a picket line some years ago. Well, I wasn't going to pass a picket, and I wasn't going to just take a day off, so what else could I do?)

My correspondence with them today was just to do with the practicalities of leaving. I mentioned my motive at one point but there was no response.

I presume all the unions are hand-in-glove with Labour.

I've written to the Irish Times about this. If they don't publish it, I'll try elsewhere.

Yes well I'm going to nag you again to write to the Catholic newspapers because you have a memorable name and a talent for writing. That's more than half the battle. Get yourself in there Maolsheachlann, you could do a column no bother.

I was surprised at the turnout, all those groups together and they could only manage a few hundred. It was devious of them to throw the abortion issue in with the economic situation, had there been thousands you couldn't tell who was supporting what.

Which way will the silent majority go is the question. I sometimes read boards.ie and politics.ie when I should be ironing instead and find it so depressing. I think it's important to remember that most people have familes and obligations that mean they can't rant on the internet of an evening. Ahem. So the discourse as shaped by the media and internet is not necessarily reflective of 21st century Ireland. We have to hope and rail against it, come what may.

[Young Ireland]

Mar 11, 2013 21:26:20 GMT @banaltra said:

Mar 11, 2013 21:15:25 GMT maolsheachlann said:

I am a member of SIPTU but not very active, I've never been to a meeting (though I did reluctantly join a picket line some years ago. Well, I wasn't going to pass a picket, and I wasn't going to just take a day off, so what else could I do?)

My correspondence with them today was just to do with the practicalities of leaving. I mentioned my motive at one point but there was no response.

I presume all the unions are hand-in-glove with Labour.

I've written to the Irish Times about this. If they don't publish it, I'll try elsewhere.

Yes well I'm going to nag you again to write to the Catholic newspapers because you have a memorable name and a talent for writing. That's more than half the battle. Get yourself in there Maolsheachlann, you could do a column no bother.

I was surprised at the turnout, all those groups together and they could only manage a few hundred. It was devious of them to throw the abortion issue in with the economic situation, had there been thousands you couldn't tell who was supporting what.

Which way will the silent majority go is the question. I sometimes read boards.ie and politics.ie when I should be ironing instead and find it so depressing. I think it's important to remember that most people have familes and obligations that mean they can't rant on the internet of an evening. Ahem. So the discourse as shaped by the media and internet is not necessarily reflective of 21st century Ireland. We have to hope and rail against it, come what may.

I agree with Louise. I think it is most likely that the majority favour abortion in certain circumstances (which is still wrong of course), though not favouring abortion on demand. In other words, neither pro-lifers or pro-choicers have a majority (though sadly I think that the momentum is with the latter )

[Deleted]

Mar 3, 2013 22:48:22 GMT hibernicus said:

One point about the Kermit Gosnell story is very relevant. He was able to get away with his activities for so long because the Democrat state administration under which he lived refused to support any form of regulation for abortion clinics on the grounds that such measures as regular inspections, bulding regulations etc amounted to harrassment and an attempt to make it more difficult for women to get abortions.
Since American pro-choicers have a significant input into the movement here, it is not surprising to find that the radical wing of the pro-choicers are busily holding up Canada (where the existing abortion laws were struck down as unconstitutionally restrictive and there has been no political will to pass new laws, so that there are in practice no restrictions at all) as the ideal for Ireland to follow, and proclaiming that any restrictions at all on the absolute "right to choose" are a Trojan horse for pro-lifers. We are even seeing Nurse Cadden (the 1930s-1950s backstreet abortionist whose methods led to the death of at least one women patient as well as the infants killed) rehabilitated in some circles as a feminist martyr.

Why do you think they are zoning in on Canada? Is the UK and their frightening rate too close to home, we know we'll end up like them, isn't it 1 in 5 over there aborted?

I think they (all but the weirdest idealogues) say they want unrestricted abortion for negotiating purposes and then there will be uproar so the government will say oh dear this is awful but we must lay a line down somewhere, screaming and screeching from both sides, let's settle at 16 weeks so and voila we have abortion in Ireland. Jesus help us, even writing those last 5 words sent a chill down my spine.