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Post by vocoprotatiano on May 16, 2012 16:28:15 GMT
I think accurately thinking people agree that the individual comes into existence AFTER the fission horizon has passed. This is the moment, after which, the foetus cannot divide into two or more identical siblings. This is definitely some time after conception. Yes, the potentiality exists at conception. That potentiality is DEFINED at conception, but the undefined potentiality exists some time before conception, and that potentiality has the right to protection. If you damage the manufacturing equipment, you, by this action, damage the product. Likewise if you use the wrong tools, your work will be inferior. In nature, there is little randomness in the choosing of mates, and the prospective mate is nurtured and protected prior to mating. Humans obviously go even further.
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Post by hibernicus on May 17, 2012 22:16:01 GMT
We seem to be using the term "conception" to mean different things. I use it to mean the union of sperm and egg, which is the usual term. vocoprotiano seems to use it as meaning "implantation" - when the embryo attaches itself to the uterus.
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Post by vocoprotatiano on May 18, 2012 0:28:25 GMT
No. Conception is the union of sperm and egg. After implantation, the part of the embryo which will become the foetus can still fission, so as long as this is possible, it is logically incorrect to refer to the embryo as an individual because that word means it cannot be divided. We know that fission occurs post implantation because identical siblings share he same placenta. Again, do not confuse embryo with foetus. They are NOT the same. The embryo is the precursor of both foetus and placenta. The embryo does not fission, but the foetus does, or more accurately, the part of the embryo which will become the foetus does. The embryo divides into foetus and placenta. Only after the foetus has passed the fission horizon can it be classed as individual, if it has not fissioned, or a number of individuals if it has.
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Post by Jimbo on Jul 15, 2012 23:56:11 GMT
I am pro life and met somebody in London many years ago when it was considered quite normal to abort Children at 28 weeks, but what he told me has haunted me ever since. He worked in a hospital that has since been demolished, incidently he isn't catholic and before starting in the hospital had no opinion on abortion, however he told me that it was normal to throw the aborted child into the boiler furnace of the hospital and he says that he had heard them crying!
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