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Jun 25, 2015 19:19:10 GMT
Post by Young Ireland on Jun 25, 2015 19:19:10 GMT
Seconded, and any far-rightists thinking of going on this rally I would strongly advise to stay at home, because the pro-aborts will use their horrid views to discredit all pro-lifers as a bunch of fascists.
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Post by hibernicus on Jun 25, 2015 19:46:42 GMT
They will call us a bunch of fascists anyway, but I would still ask far-rightists to stay away even if the pro-aborts paid no attention to them.
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2015 11:37:01 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 11:37:01 GMT
What would far-right people do at a Pro-Life rally?
Also, I remember the last time I was at this Rally there was a guy holding a sign saying something about the "Satanic Catholic Church".
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Jun 26, 2015 17:21:51 GMT
Post by Young Ireland on Jun 26, 2015 17:21:51 GMT
What would far-right people do at a Pro-Life rally? Also, I remember the last time I was at this Rally there was a guy holding a sign saying something about the "Satanic Catholic Church". Far-rightists often attend pro-life rallies to attract potential recruits (and they have had some sporadic success co-opting pro-lifers) and piggyback on the relative strength of the pro-life movement in comparison to themselves. The fact that many pro-lifers, due to a lack of meaningful catechesis, are vulnerable to being influenced only increases the threat. As for the guy holding the sign, I've no idea what side he was on, though I think that it might have been a false flag (most pro-aborts are more sophisticated in their attacks on the Church, implausible as it may be, and for a pro-lifer to alienate the vast majority of his allies in such an abusive manner would be self-defeating) designed to discredit the other side.
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Jun 27, 2015 16:52:27 GMT
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 27, 2015 16:52:27 GMT
I got the day wrong and went in today. I was wondering why a pro-life rally would be held on the same day as a gay pride march. I went from Parnell Square to Merrion Square looking for it. Oh well.
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Deleted
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Jun 28, 2015 18:35:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 18:35:06 GMT
What would far-right people do at a Pro-Life rally? Also, I remember the last time I was at this Rally there was a guy holding a sign saying something about the "Satanic Catholic Church". Far-rightists often attend pro-life rallies to attract potential recruits (and they have had some sporadic success co-opting pro-lifers) and piggyback on the relative strength of the pro-life movement in comparison to themselves. The fact that many pro-lifers, due to a lack of meaningful catechesis, are vulnerable to being influenced only increases the threat. As for the guy holding the sign, I've no idea what side he was on, though I think that it might have been a false flag (most pro-aborts are more sophisticated in their attacks on the Church, implausible as it may be, and for a pro-lifer to alienate the vast majority of his allies in such an abusive manner would be self-defeating) designed to discredit the other side. Ok, they try to persuade people, but do they actually do anything that attracts negative attention to the Rally itself? As for the guy with the sign, I wasn't suggesting he was with one side or the other. I was more thinking he is aligned with the Anti-Catholic preacher types you see around there, and so he figured there would be a lot of Satanic-Church following Catholics on the day that he needed to warn.... despite the fact that the Catholics were protesting abortion while he just stood there with a sign. Actually, I should mention that there were two young people about my age - a man and a woman - that were with him. They just stood on either side of him. If he's back this year, do you think it's worth arguing with him (in a friendly way I mean). You never know what you're going to hear with these types, but I do believe their hearts are in the right place, and they certainly aren't afraid to declare their faith publicly either which is admirable(assuming he IS one of them).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 18:38:30 GMT
I got the day wrong and went in today. I was wondering why a pro-life rally would be held on the same day as a gay pride march. I went from Parnell Square to Merrion Square looking for it. Oh well. Apologies for that Maolsheachlann. I actually thought so myself until an hour or 2 before I was about to leave. I came onto the forum one more time, and after rereading Hibernicus' post (which I thought was just a more detailed version of what I wrote), it was only then I noticed it was next week. Still, not many people can say they led a one-man Pro-Life rally through the streets of Dublin. Was there really a gay pride march that day? They still feel the need to run those?
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Jun 28, 2015 18:52:35 GMT
Post by Young Ireland on Jun 28, 2015 18:52:35 GMT
Far-rightists often attend pro-life rallies to attract potential recruits (and they have had some sporadic success co-opting pro-lifers) and piggyback on the relative strength of the pro-life movement in comparison to themselves. The fact that many pro-lifers, due to a lack of meaningful catechesis, are vulnerable to being influenced only increases the threat. As for the guy holding the sign, I've no idea what side he was on, though I think that it might have been a false flag (most pro-aborts are more sophisticated in their attacks on the Church, implausible as it may be, and for a pro-lifer to alienate the vast majority of his allies in such an abusive manner would be self-defeating) designed to discredit the other side. Ok, they try to persuade people, but do they actually do anything that attracts negative attention to the Rally itself? As for the guy with the sign, I wasn't suggesting he was with one side or the other. I was more thinking he is aligned with the Anti-Catholic preacher types you see around there, and so he figured there would be a lot of Satanic-Church following Catholics on the day that he needed to warn.... despite the fact that the Catholics were protesting abortion while he just stood there with a sign. Actually, I should mention that there were two young people about my age - a man and a woman - that were with him. They just stood on either side of him. If he's back this year, do you think it's worth arguing with him (in a friendly way I mean). You never know what you're going to hear with these types, but I do believe their hearts are in the right place, and they certainly aren't afraid to declare their faith publicly either which is admirable(assuming he IS one of them). Some of them have brought signs identifying pro-life with their own agenda (an example would be "Pro Life! Pro Irish!". Draw your own conclusions.) and handed them out to unsuspecting participants. This isn't the organiser's fault (they can't be held responsible for EVERYONE who attends their rallies) but publicly making it clear that such rhetoric is unwelcome would save the pro-life movement from a lot of reputational damage. As for the other guy, if you think that he'll respond reasonably, go for it. If you go ahead and he does doesn't respond reasonably, then congratulations, you've won the debate by default.
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Jun 28, 2015 20:06:00 GMT
Post by maolsheachlann on Jun 28, 2015 20:06:00 GMT
Antaine, there was not only a gay pride march but there were rainbow flags on O'Connell Bridge and rainbow signs in all the shops. There were an awful lot of rainbow people about.
The thing about gay rights is that it goes on indefinitely, because they are seeking equality between things which, by their natures, can never be equal.
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Jun 30, 2015 20:39:06 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Jun 30, 2015 20:39:06 GMT
As regards the far-rightists, I sometimes look on the "pro-choice" sites and whenever an identifiable far-rightist is identified at a pro-life march (there are a couple of individuals who are regulars; one stood as a pro-life Dail candidate in the early 1990s and now calls himself a "white nationalist") this is cited as "proof" that all pro-lifers are fascists and should be treated accordingly. The INternational Third Position which is really a neo-pagan fascist group, but which uses terminology aimed at giving the impression that they are Catholic traditionalists, used to operate on the fringes of some Irish pro-life activities. I remember seeing pro-life posters with their name on it being put up in some places, and messages from them read out at Irish pro-life rallies by people who didn't realise what sort of group they really are. That was about 20 years ago, though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Third_Position One device such people use to mislead naive pro-lifers, BTW, is that so-called "white nationalists" often maintain that the "white race" is threatened with extinction as the result of non-white immigration and whites not having enough children as a result of abortion, feminism etc (with veiled insinuations that this is all a Jewish conspiracy_. This leads to what can be presented to the unwary as a pro-life stance when it really amounts to being pro-life and pro-natalist for whites only, with non-whites being regarded as non-human.
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Post by Ranger on Jul 1, 2015 11:23:11 GMT
What really struck me about the gay pride parade btw was the sheer number of young people at it, including many under 18s. I think that those of my age (mid twenties) were mostly completely apathetic about politics, but to see a new generation energised for this cause is worrying, if only because it presents a major barrier to bringing the Gospel to them. The Church really has lost yet another generation in this country.
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Jul 2, 2015 7:09:18 GMT
Post by rogerbuck on Jul 2, 2015 7:09:18 GMT
What really struck me about the gay pride parade btw was the sheer number of young people at it, including many under 18s. I think that those of my age (mid twenties) were mostly completely apathetic about politics, but to see a new generation energised for this cause is worrying, if only because it presents a major barrier to bringing the Gospel to them. The Church really has lost yet another generation in this country. This points to what seems to me one of the gravest issues facing this country. The young it would seem are being evangelised by the secular media. And whilst this fosters materialism, pure and simple in many, those with a spiritual or religious orientation, who would have turned to the Church in the past, now turn to the New Age, I suspect. Hm, this deserves it's own thread, I think. I may create one.
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jaykay
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Jul 3, 2015 15:39:04 GMT
Post by jaykay on Jul 3, 2015 15:39:04 GMT
hibernicus said: "Just a note - the bootboy brigade of the "pro-choicers" usually assemble on the traffic island in O'Connell Street, usually opposite Clery's and sometimes on both sides of the road, chanting hateful slogans and waving placards suggesting that pro-lifers oppose abortion because we want to keep up the supply of children to be abused by priests. DON'T BE PROVOKED! THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT! I hope the stewarding is effective."
I just have the feeling that there'll be more of them in evidence this year, given recent developments here and in the US. They'll really feel they have the wind in their sails. Personally, whenever I've found myself on that particular side of the march i.e. the traffic island side, I've just smiled which, combined with a steadfast refusal to rise to the provocation, works. I've never actually been spat at or anything like that. That said, last time it was in Dublin in 2013 I did see a man going over to them and engaging in debate. Brave guy. In fairness, when I looked behind, they did seem to be talking to him normally enough. One of my friends will be a steward tomorrow. It'll be interesting comparing notes with him after the event over a few pints.
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Deleted
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Jul 3, 2015 18:03:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 18:03:26 GMT
I remember walking through that last time actually. I wasn't provoked into confronting them, but neither could I do what jaykay did and try smiling at them. In fact, I recall finding it difficult to keep my eyes open as if they were being forced shut. Not sure what that was all about, but not very pleasant. Perhaps I'm better prepared this time.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:47:03 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Jul 3, 2015 19:47:03 GMT
There is a noticeable sprinkling of March for Life posters around Dublin city centre and on the bridges over the canals - more than usually seen. Pleasantly surprised that the thugs have not systematically vandalised them as was done to the Youth Defence poster campaign awhile back. The pro-choicers have set up a Facebook page for their counter-demonstration and are psyching themselves up by warning each other of the lunacy and potential violence to be expected from the "freaks" - that's us. This is a fine display of the psychological phenomenon known as "projection" whereby people attribute their own bad habits to their opponents to avoid facing up to their own faults and to justify their own misdeeds. Their latest stunt BTW is to use a drone to deliver abortion pills to IReland, as they have recently been doing in Poland. No doubt they will be informing their dupes that they live in fear of its being shot down by the pro-life air defences established by that crazy pro-life zealot Enda Kenny (and it must be said that compared to the sort of people who contribute to the Irish pro-choice sites, Enda Kenny is indeed a pro-life zealot, just as Joe Stalin was a democrat and humanitarian compared to some of the Trot and anarchist nuts who lend their muscle to pro-choice rallies).
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