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Post by shane on Jan 2, 2011 1:41:31 GMT
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Post by shane on Jan 2, 2011 1:51:01 GMT
He's put a list of 17 points for converting Anglicans. mundabor.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/little-vademecum-for-those-anglicans-thinking-of-conversion/1) There is only One Church, and it is not the Anglican one.
2) Christians are divided into: a) Catholics; b) Schismatics; c) Heretics.
3) Anglicans of whatever orientations belong to c) above: Heretics. Every one of them, however they may call themselves.
4) Anglican so-called orders are invalid. Anglican clergy are, for Catholics, laymen. This is Catholic teaching. No amount of self-delusion will ever change an iota in this.
5) There is nothing like a “something-Catholic”. You can’t be Anglo-Catholic more than you can be Methodist-Catholic. You are Catholic, or Schismatic, or Heretic. Are you Anglican? You’re Heretic.
6) This has been repeated (not stated, or invented, or decided; repeated) by Leo XIII in 1897, with Apostolicae Curae. He who can read, let him read.
7) The decision to convert is the decision to leave the Lie and embrace the Truth. Ego investments, personal preferences, how nice the Vicar is & Co. have no role to play in this. This side, or that side.
8 ) Every “converted” former Anglican who still claims to believe Anglican heresy (from the validity of the ordination of Anglican clergy; to Anglo-Catholics being “Catholics”; to whatever else) is a fake convert, sacrilegious and heretical. Better to remain a heretic from outside until one is ready for a real conversion, than to try to be a heretic from within the Church. Heretics are, by definition, outside of the Church anyway. Cheating one’s way to a club card leads to nothing and, possibly, to perdition.
9) Truth cannot be embraced in half. You either embrace Truth, or you cling to the lie. Tertium non datur.
10) Anglican doublethink doesn’t work the other side of the Tiber. “Two and two is four, but also five and we respect those who think it is six and will dialogue in chariteeee with those who think it is seven and a half” works only before the (notoriously lethargic) Vatican steamroller starts to move, but it brings tears and excommunications when it invariably does. Those who think that they can export their doublethink and “tolerance” past the Tiber are in for a very late, but very rude awakening.
11) Catholicism works differently. To say “I’m hurt” will not make you right. To say “you’re uncharitable” will not make you less wrong. To say “you must adjust to accommodate my feelings” doesn’t exist at all. You’ll have to eat the same fare as Padre Pio and St. Philip Neri, St. Francis and St. Dominic. No Anglican preservatives, and no choice of toppings. What a blessing.
12) The decision to embrace the Truth is difficult. It requires the acknowledgment that one (and one’s old soi-disant “church”) was wrong all the time. That one’s ancestors were wrong all the time. That one’s former organisation had no Catholic being or legitimation whatsoever. Nothing less is required. If you can’t say this to yourself with a sense of elation and Truth finally found, you are still a Heretic.
13) Truth will make you free. The decision to discard the lie and embrace the Truth in its totality is the healthiest and most productive single decision in one’s man existence. So healthy and so beautiful, because so difficult. If it wasn’t difficult, there would be no beauty and no merit in it.
14) Truth is like a diamond: extremely beautiful, but extremely hard. Are you ready for the beauty (and the hardness) of the diamond? Or do you want to continue to believe that the synthetic version is a diamond too? Choose the true diamond. Accept no substitutes. You’ll discover that its beauty is beyond your hope.
15) True Catholics will stand in awe in front of real, serious converts. You are in our prayers and we know that many of you will become extremely orthodox, wonderful Catholics. But true Catholics will attack without mercy those who attempt to import the heresy within the Barque of Peter. This is an unprecedented experiment, but will not be a door open to “Catholicism a’ la carte”. Again: forget the old Anglican ways, this is not going to work that way.
16) Pray Blessed Cardinal Newman that he may guide you. He knows all your troubles, went through the same pains as yours, sees all the obstacles in front of you. It took him years of reflection and prayer before deciding himself to the step. But once he took it, what a wonderful march he started! So take your time and be assured of our prayers and of the assistance of the Holy Ghost, your Guardian Angel and the Blessed Virgin. Take your time and prepare yourself carefully for the impact and the beauty of the Truth. It is better to carefully invest some years of sound investment leading to a copious yield, than to waste everything in a fake conversion leading nearer to Hell.
17) Best wishes and good luck to you.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 2, 2011 21:24:12 GMT
From my memories of Mundabor's comments on Thompson's blog I would think he has quite a lot of issues and I would be wary of endorsing him. I also think he is a bit hard on anglo-Catholics, who often are closer to orthodox Catholicism than certain priests in good standing (e.g. Fr Hans Kung, who explicitly denies the unique salvicity of Jesus - I do not mean by this that only Christian will be saved, but that all who are saved are saved through Jesus whether they knew Him or not). As for the "homo" stuff I think this sort of namecalling is best avoided. It sins against charity (as I regret to say I often do in my mind when certain celebrities are lionised on air - but such feelings are to be combated and restrained). I remember seeing a blogpost by a chaste homosexual convert (I got it through a link from Mark Shea) who said how hurt he was by the NEW OXFORD REVIEW's persistent remarks such as "We know there are rump rangers in Hell" and similar language. Calling people "fag" "homo" etc is not about winning hearts and minds, it's about making the speaker feel important by verbal anger. Furthermore, this sort of stuff plays into the hands of those who wish to portray all religious opposition to this vice as "haters". In this context, let me ask your prayers for the repose of the soul of Fr John Harvey, founder of the COURAGE organisation which assists repentant homosexuals to conquer these urges and live chaste lives in accordance with Church teaching through mutual support. He died a few days ago. It is work like his which is needed - not the rants of people like Mundabor.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 2, 2011 21:37:21 GMT
I remember once reading a critique of the nineteenth-century American Catholic convert intellectual Orestes Brownson which accused him of telling every Protestant he met in the angriest words that they would be damned if they did not convert to Cahtolicism and being surprised when this did not lead to their instant conversion. This criticism certainly recalls Mundabor.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 3, 2011 21:11:13 GMT
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Post by shane on Jan 5, 2011 7:23:34 GMT
In England, liturgically 'high' Anglican parishes can often be quite 'camp' (for lack of a better word). In Anglicanism conservatism in liturgy does not necessarily correspond to conservatism in doctrine, whereas it's much more likely to in Catholicism. And the conservative evangelical wing tend to have an aversion towards liturgy in general.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 5, 2011 14:45:53 GMT
I am well aware of the "camp" element within Anglo-catholicsm and of the significant body of anglo-Catholics who are "high" in liturgy but theological liberals. The problem with Mundabor is that he does not care about such distinctions - he just dismisses them all as equally worthless. It reminds me of Fr Anthony Cekada's recent denuncation (which I mentioned on another thread) of "Eastern Orthodox, Copts, Nestorians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists and Presbyterians" as all equally unCatholic and therefore equally unworthy of conciliation, as if the very significant differences between them (notably the first three having valid Orders and sacraments) counted for nothing.
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