Hemingway, I have no idea why you would find any of this contradictory when you know the story so well. Why would you expect to find any other reason for the horrendous evil deeds done by man other than tempted by a supernatural devil who was cast out of heaven for being bad because God is all good?
Certainly you would not expect me to think as you that the evil man does is a natural result of some sort of scientific analysis?
Men (and women) do "evil" things through ambition, greed, hate (in many instances religious hate), bigotry (often religious also), political ambition and in some instances they carry out misdeeds because of mental instability.
They don’t carry out such deeds because of a scary imaginary monster who lurks under your bed at night and lives in a place full of fire and weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Grow up. Use your intellect Michael. You are an adult. It’s an Iron Age book full of myths and stories. That is it. Some of these stories have a sound moral message to convey and some of the stories are downright barbaric. In this sense it’s just a typical Iron Age book full of stories similar to ones in other books of this period.
Your statement
"Certainly you would not expect me to think as you that the evil man does is a natural result of some sort of scientific analysis?" is unintelligible to me. I don’t even know what you are saying in this statement never mind this statement representing my position. Therefore when you say "...you would not expect me to think as you that...." you are postulating a position for me that I do not hold.
Therefore you are attempting a straw man argument. Address what I say, not what you would claim I say. That is dishonest.
If man is as you propose a rational creature with an intelligent mind, then why is the entire world full of spooks?
Once again........ What? Spooks? What does this mean? If you mean ghosts, I would state that in my opinion there is no such thing. There. Didn’t take long to shoot down that point.... NEXT........
If as you say the Bible is an old book, then why does the entire world revolve around the historic events documented therein including the marking of time which is AD and BC meaning before and after Christ and why does every government in the world contain references to these Divine Mysteries as well contained within their constitutions and laws?
Oh how AROGANT!!!!! The entire world DOES NOT revolve around the historic events documented therein as you claim.
The correct terminology is CE and BCE (Common Era and Before Common Era). Only persons with a bias view towards the supernatural entities that make up the deities within Christianity use AD and BC.
Look at the majority of modern literature. The correct terminology is BCE and CE.
Many of the world constitutions and Laws were drafted by religious people and put together before we possessed the information about the world we now posses and therefore god was referenced as we had gaps in our scientific knowledge.
When the religious find something that science cannot yet fully explain they claim "See.... You cant explain it.... god must have done it." This called god of the gaps and it’s a logical fallacy.
Constitutions, such as the one in the United States was drafted SPECIFCALLY NOT to contain religious references and that is why you have separation of church and state over there.
It was only later in the 1950's when the religious lobby began to grow and become members of government that phrases such as "One Nation Under God..." were inserted into the pledge of allegiance. The founding fathers were very careful to omit such references to god in the United States constitution.
And now its one of the most religious countries in the world..... and one of the most violent.
Funny that. Why are the most religious countries in the world at present (The Middle East, USA, Indonesia) also the most violent?
Any ideas......?
If man is not religious he is certainly superstitious and fascinated with the occult and demons as well as with God.
Incorrect. What a load of bunkum. The percentage of people dabbling in the occult is tiny. I know of ZERO and I have met thousands of people from all walks of life.
Therefore I must conclude that you have made a totally false and baseless statement and have not even referenced any statistics to attempt to back up your argument. Pathetic..... NEXT.......
I have never met an atheist in my life that was not intensely preoccupied with the existence of God, spirits, apparitions, demons, good and evil.?
Well, now you have.
I am not preoccupied with the above matters. I live a good normal life. I just refuse to accept that there is an invisible man in the sky that made everything when I constantly get presented with zero evidence for this beings existence.
I also don’t need an Iron Age book as a road map or moral guide on how to live and behave. I figured that one out all by myself. It’s called possessing good morals and it has nothing to do with religions.
If one were to live there life by the morals shown in the Old Testament, one would be a criminal in this day and age. Stoning homosexuals and adulterant wives indeed........
The difference between an atheist and a Catholic is that atheists are so confused about these issues that they constantly seek dialog with Catholics to try to find the answer to these most puzzling pieces of information that atheists are incapable of processing mentally while Catholic are fully aware of all these mysteries and know precisely where they come from both naturally and supernaturally.
Ah yes. This from the man who has been kicked off this site FOUR times and from the Atheist Ireland site also for trolling. Brilliant!
I assure you that atheists are capable of
"processing mentally" many of these mysteries you refer to. However, in the majority of cases they ask themselves questions such as how likely is it that there was a talking snake in the garden of eden? How likely is it that a woman gave birth and remained a virgin?
Those crazy atheists eh Michael?
You are suggesting that atheists are stupid because they think too much and don’t just accept these things on blind faith alone without evidence. They, in many cases explore where these stories came from and how ancient books such as the bible were actually put together into a cannon hundreds of years AFTER Jesus died.
Once you look at these things closer, it becomes clear that the historical accuracy of these events becomes questionable.
Suggesting that atheists are somehow mentally inferior to people of faith because they don’t follow blindly the writings of an Iron Age book without researching it further or asking questions is a logical fallacy. Beneath you Sir……… raise your game.
If this were not true then tell me why do you and the other atheists love to dialog with Catholic incessantly?
We are here because we were invited here. There are only three of us.
You, on the other hand, invited yourself over to the Atheist Ireland website and promptly were removed for trolling.
I will retort your question..... Why did you go over to Atheist Ireland when you were kicked off this site on four previous occasions?
And don’t think yourself special my friend. You will find atheists on all sorts of websites not just catholic ones. I am personally a member of many website forums dealing music, politics, religion, humanism, atheism, musicals, nature and many others. I discuss many topics on all these sites.
Get over yourself.
And please don't give me this ballyhoo about amusement or contest of logic as I have heard all that malarky from you already.
Contest of logic is a very valid reason. Calling it “malarkey” doesn’t make it invalid.
I enjoy discussion with reasonable people of all persuasions. In the main people make their points and if the don’t agree they decide to disagree.
Every now and then, however, you get the odd person who is unreasonable and not open to debate at all. These type of people stamp their feet, stick their fingers in their ears and cry "Na na na na.... I cant hear you" (metaphorically of course).
I'm afraid some people are just not secure or mature enough to engage in intelligent adult debate. That’s just a fact of life. Sad really, but there you go.
Tell the truth Hemingway, whether your deepest desire is to comprehend these mysteries yet you have no idea where to start.
Is that an Ad Hominem attack? Oh Michael.... lowering the tone!!!!!!!!
The honest truth is I was a catholic for a long time. I now just cannot accept the material that I was fed as a child. I have grown up, done some research and, damn it, I'm just too logical to accept it.
In my opinion the doctrine is so flimsy and requires adherents to not think too hard or research too hard about things for themselves in order to accept it. I have no wish to offend anyone, but that is exactly how I feel.
That is why you hang around here on a Catholic site instead of with your atheist friends because you don't fit in with them either especially well because you were Baptized Catholic?.
What to say to that? Yet another Ad Hominem attack!!!
When you have no relevant points to make ATTACK THE PERSON INSTEAD!! Ha ha ha....... Sad really on one level I suppose.
See above posts RE being members of other sites, you attempting to join Atheist Irelands Forum but being rejected etc.
By the way, I must point out that people of faith are more than welcome on Atheist Irelands website. Indeed we have a few religious contributors who engage in regular debate and the threads can become very interesting and mentally stimulating.
Michael, however was trolling so bad he was disrupting reasonable debate and had to be removed after several warnings.
Please try not to blame or fault your parents for that as they were trying to do good for you.
Thanks for the advice. My father has passed away and my mother (a catholic) is the most important person in my life. I love them both dearly.
I have no animosity towards them, the catholic church or people of any faith for that matter.
A really poor attempt at pandering and just a little bit sanctimonious on your end Michael. No offence taken by the way. I shall not rise and take the bait you offer.
You clearly find it impossible to engage in mature debate without questioning my intelligence, the intelligence of atheists in general and even the intention of my parents and my feelings towards them.
Michael.... this is truly pathetic. You must see this!
I have researched all your previous posts.
I find that hard to accept as you clearly show no knowledge of previous answers I have given and if you had looked at my previous posts you would not be questioning my intelligence.
It would appear that you are wee bit of a spoofer Michael.
In your reply, I would ask you to try to address the points I made in this rebuttal rather than attacking me personally.
Its what adults do on a discussion forum. Its called etiquette.