|
Post by annie on Jun 2, 2018 22:12:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Jan 24, 2019 20:15:52 GMT
Here's a sad example of what this thread is about. The Mercy Sisters have been hosting We Are Church Ireland meetings at the Mercy International Centre in Baggot Street. (Those of you unfamiliar with WACI will find various lucubrations of theirs on the ACPI website and a search will turn up the letters which one of their principal representatives, Brendan Butler, regularly sends to the IRISH TIMES. Let's just say they are decidedly heterodox.) The next meeting was to have featured Josepha Madigan holding forth on "Why the Catholic Church Should Open All Its Ministries To Women". The Lumen Fidei Institute asked sympathisers to contact the Mercy Sisters on the grounds of (a) the heterodoxy of the theme (b) Josepha Madigan's prominent role in the legalisation of abortion here. Sadly, although most of the protestors were straightforward, some were abusive and at least one criminal idiot apparently made threats - which, for the record, this site utterly condemns. As a result, the Mercy Sisters have withdrawn the use of the venue, and RTE is now reporting the story as being primarily about the threat rather than about the issues at stake (and let me say once again; the threat would be wrong even if it had not had this effect). What is really startling is that the Mercy Sisters complain in their statement that the protestors referred to Josepha Madigan's role in the referendum even though this was not the subject of her talk. Does that mean that they would host a talk on flower-arranging by, let us say, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, because flower-arranging has nothing to do with his crimes? Ven. Catherine McAuley, phone home! Minister Madigan defends herself by saying the majority of the people of this country decided to legalise abortion, so that's all right then. There was a time when the majority of the population of Northern Ireland supported politico-religious discrimination - did that make it all right? www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0123/1025134-we-are-church/Here's the Lumen Fidei Institute's version of events: www.lumenfidei.ie/josepha-madigan-td-and-the-mercy-sisters/
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jan 24, 2019 20:59:57 GMT
Sadly, although most of the protestors were straightforward, some were abusive and at least one criminal idiot apparently made threats - which, for the record, this site utterly condemns. All abuse and threats are wrong. But it's so easy to claim that these have been made and there have been many spurious claims. I am always sceptical.
|
|
|
Post by annie on Jan 26, 2019 11:46:42 GMT
Here's a sad example of what this thread is about. The Mercy Sisters have been hosting We Are Church Ireland meetings at the Mercy International Centre in Baggot Street. (Those of you unfamiliar with WACI will find various lucubrations of theirs on the ACPI website and a search will turn up the letters which one of their principal representatives, Brendan Butler, regularly sends to the IRISH TIMES. Let's just say they are decidedly heterodox.) Schismatic is perhaps a better description of WACI.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Jan 26, 2019 22:03:21 GMT
At least schismatics will often admit there is a schism and go away. WACI stick to the Church (when one well-known US feminist "theologian" was asked why she remained attached to the Church, she replied "That's where the photocopiers are").
|
|
|
Post by annie on Jan 26, 2019 23:34:29 GMT
At least schismatics will often admit there is a schism and go away. WACI stick to the Church (when one well-known US feminist "theologian" was asked why she remained attached to the Church, she replied "That's where the photocopiers are"). Parasitic so.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Jan 28, 2019 22:52:57 GMT
Sadly, although most of the protestors were straightforward, some were abusive and at least one criminal idiot apparently made threats - which, for the record, this site utterly condemns. All abuse and threats are wrong. But it's so easy to claim that these have been made and there have been many spurious claims. I am always sceptical. Oh, I agree that there are spurious claims (not necessarily dishonest - it is possible for someone to perceive a threat where no threat was intended) but there are also unfortunately some cranks and lunatics on our side, and it is probably safest to assume there has been a threat unless/until this is disproved. It doesn't affect the basic issue, which is that Josepha Madigan should not be allowed to use church property to assert her claims to know better than the Church, when she has just driven an articulated lorry through the Fifth Commandment.
|
|
|
Post by maolsheachlann on Jan 29, 2019 10:21:38 GMT
All abuse and threats are wrong. But it's so easy to claim that these have been made and there have been many spurious claims. I am always sceptical. Oh, I agree that there are spurious claims (not necessarily dishonest - it is possible for someone to perceive a threat where no threat was intended) but there are also unfortunately some cranks and lunatics on our side, and it is probably safest to assume there has been a threat unless/until this is disproved. It doesn't affect the basic issue, which is that Josepha Madigan should not be allowed to use church property to assert her claims to know better than the Church, when she has just driven an articulated lorry through the Fifth Commandment. Thinking about this story, I wondered if some kind of layperson's guide to orthodoxy in Catholic institutions might be a good idea. It could be a wiki format. I've passed the Mercy International Centre every day for years without realising the rot had set in there, too.
|
|
|
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 29, 2019 11:33:34 GMT
I gave up on the Mercy Centre a long tíme ago when I heard they had Mary Condren working there. She is a feminist theologian whose claim to fame is a book called The Serpent and the Goddess, which is a reinterpretation of early Irish myths from a feminist point of view. It is very sloppy as it is secondary. The woman only deals with the subject in translation and cites outdated scholarship on them which she twists to suit her thesis. And she attacks Catholic dogma and moral teaching as she goes, well beyond Ms Madigan's imagination.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Feb 8, 2019 23:51:25 GMT
So we have a combination of heresy and lousy scholarship. Does she acknowledge she is making it up as she goes along (as quite a few feminist theologians do when creating a God/dess in their own image)? At least the Modernist Loisy was a genuinely skilled biblical scholar with an original mind. It reminds me of the Australian political commentator who was expelled from his synagogue because the majority of members disliked his right-wing views. He retorted: "Spinoza was excommunicated by the most learned rabbis in Europe. I've been excommunicated by a bunch of Sydney used-car salesmen!"
|
|
|
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 12, 2019 9:07:20 GMT
It's been a long time since I read the book, but I remember the sleeve listed her doctorate from Harvard University. My reaction was to wonder if that was the best Havard could do. I thought I could connect an underlying theme in the book that objective truth was not important. Years later I heard her interviewed by the Tuam priest Father Pat O'Brien who had a radio show on religious affairs on RTÉ. Humbug is the word that came to mind. I remember Katherine Zappone also being an RTÉ religious affairs regular earlier than that, so I wonder where Mary Condren got to.
Did you ever think Ireland's bishops and religious superiors spent decades sleeping on the job, with successive nuncios?
|
|
|
Post by assisi on Feb 15, 2019 21:02:31 GMT
It's been a long time since I read the book, but I remember the sleeve listed her doctorate from Harvard University. My reaction was to wonder if that was the best Havard could do. I thought I could connect an underlying theme in the book that objective truth was not important. Years later I heard her interviewed by the Tuam priest Father Pat O'Brien who had a radio show on religious affairs on RTÉ. Humbug is the word that came to mind. I remember Katherine Zappone also being an RTÉ religious affairs regular earlier than that, so I wonder where Mary Condren got to. Did you ever think Ireland's bishops and religious superiors spent decades sleeping on the job, with successive nuncios? I think I would been happy with the term 'sleeping on the job' if that's all it was. But it is now becoming clear that the Church via the seminaries has been compromised by two types of rot. Active homosexual predators and the curse of modernism (there may be some connection). McCarrick's case in the U.S. and the tacit acceptance of what he was doing amongst some senior clerics shows the depth of the problem. I'm sure that in many countries outside the US that type of culture has seeped into the seminaries, perhaps scaring off many good men who would have made outstanding priests. I would think that the malaise in the Irish Catholic Church, and the lack of courageous leadership is due to the rot mentioned above and the demoralisation felt by the remnant of good and faithful clergy. Now is the time for zero tolerance of such blatant heterodoxy.
|
|
xarto
New Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by xarto on Feb 17, 2019 15:27:26 GMT
I think part of the lack of vocations is visibility, very few religious wear a "uniform" anymore and are for all intents invisible. As such young men and women cannot be inspired by something they cannot see or experience.
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Apr 8, 2019 19:03:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by annie on Oct 13, 2019 8:29:19 GMT
I have no sympathy for that particular blogger; she seems to be an American conservative with a touch of Anglophilia who never developed any great feeling for this country beyond what she wanted to believe about it. Her interlocutor, nice and well-intentioned as she may have been, never questioned the type of thing that drove the country in past ages (and let me be straight, the Ireland of the past is something I admire greatly, but not so greatly as not to see her many flaws. These didn't begin with independence, or the birth of Irish republicanism, or the penal laws, or the Reformation, or the Norman Invasion, or Brian Boru, or the Vikings - no element of the world is ever perfect). Yes, we had plenty of priests, nuns and brothers in the past. But this was a product of reaction to the Famine tinged with Victorian values and Catholic rigourism (always popular) which co-opted a certain amount of Jansenism, though at the same time embracing the devotional revolution. Now I don't doubt that this age produced saints - St Charles of Mount Argus is already canonised (I know he was Dutch, but very much a fixture in the Irish Church) and Venerable Matt Talbot and John Sullivan have their causes advancing, as have the three Servants of God within the Legion of Mary and Father Edward Flanagan who was a product of this Church. But the age also produced its sinners and a great many of them. Yes the old Ireland is dead, but one could have said Old Ireland died when Jacobitism gave way to republicanism, or when the Irish language ceased to be the vernacular of the majority of the people, or when the upper class either fled the country or converted to Protestantism. The only difference between now and then is that now I am less confident of an ability to regenerate. But this does not mean it is impossible. I'm not sure if you could say Voltaire won; I'm not even sure what Voltaire wanted (would Erasmus have wanted the Reformation). I think like many other races, the Irish have succumbed to the seven capital sins. But back to "Supertradmum" (she may not intend to be arrogant, but that's how the moniker sounds to me). Knowing her attitudes, she would probably call Matt Talbot (worker, trade union member, participant in the Lockout and supporter of strikers in poor circumstances) a communist. And I hope to God she would see no fault with Frank Duff's correspondence to Archbishop McQuaid on the matter of Rev Prof Denis Fahey and Maria Duce. Excellent post brother, the moniker was misleading as you will see from this recent piece. wp.me/s7z8vU-judgingWhile a piece from her own blog in 2014 could have been written today. supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-protestant-mind-set-in-synod.html?m=1
|
|