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Post by Stevus M on Apr 20, 2008 13:16:46 GMT
Hello all. Just wondering, what is the 'gruner movement'? I am aware of Fr. Gruner and his committment to the Fatima message but I was unaware that he headed a movement of any sort?
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Post by molagga on Apr 24, 2008 22:35:49 GMT
Alaisdir...ubi sis?
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on May 19, 2008 8:30:08 GMT
I have been away for sometime, but no doubt I'll address your mails when you address the topic of this thread
BTW, glad to see you finally managed to spell my name...
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on May 19, 2008 12:12:24 GMT
Hello all. Just wondering, what is the 'gruner movement'? I am aware of Fr. Gruner and his committment to the Fatima message but I was unaware that he headed a movement of any sort? Father Gruner's group may not have articles of association like a registered company, but as long as Father Gruner is doing what he is doing (answerable only to himself) and has a following (one disposed towards donating him a lot of money), his group constitutes a movement and he can be understood to be at the head of it.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jun 3, 2008 13:40:45 GMT
Well, in Dublin, there is EDI and LMSI and as far as I can see neither have a good word to say about the other. The posts here seem to suggest the LMSI is much more active out of Dublin than in Dublin. And I see there are a lot of groups out there I have never even heard of...
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 4, 2008 13:16:30 GMT
That's old hat, Askel.
EDI is pretty much confined to Dublin, with four Masses a year. The LMSI actually run the monthly traditional Masses in Cork, Limerick and Belfast (and help out in Tralee) and organise several annual Masses, while actively supporting campaigns for regular trad Masses in some dioceses. There is no comparison.
Anyway, EDI can't even be regarded as the number 2 organisation in Ireland either. The Sodality of Our Lady and the St Conleth's Catholic Heritage Association both have a web presence and even the 'new kids on the block' (the St Colman's Society for Catholic Liturgy I keep bantering with Molagga about) have made more impact than EDI. Well, back to McDowell - radical or redundant. This applies as much to the other named organisations as it does to EDI.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 25, 2008 8:36:09 GMT
The list of Masses has another modification: Daily:Archdiocese of Tuam: St. Patrick's Academy, Islandeady, Castlebar, Co. Mayo. Sundays - 11 am; Saturdays - 9 am; Monday-Friday - 7.30 am. Celebrant: Rev. Father Thomas Cunningham C.S.Sp. Tel.: +353-94-9021782. Website: www.stpatricksacademy.ie/ Archdiocese of Dublin: St. Kevin’s Church, Harrington St., Dublin 8: Sundays & Holy Days on public holidays or Saturdays – 10.30 am; Monday-Friday – 8 am; Saturday – 9 am; Working Holy Days & 1st Fridays – 8 am & 7 pm. Traditional Chaplain: Rev. Father Gerard Deighan, P.C. Tel.: +353-87-2884638; e-mail: latinmass@dublindiocese.ie Website: www.latinmass.dublindiocese.ieWeekly:Diocese of Raphoe: Ss. Conall & Joseph Church, Bruckless, Co. Donegal. Sundays - 12.30 pm. Celebrant: Very Rev. Father Dermot McShane, P.P. Tel.: +353-74-9737015. Contact: Proinnsias O Muireagain, tel.: +353-74-9737307, e-mail: pomuiregain@eircom.net (In doubt due to Fr McShane’s health – please telephone in advance)Archdiocese of Dublin: St. Joseph’s Chapel, Newtownmountkennedy, Co. Wicklow. Saturdays – 11 am. Celebrant: Very Rev. Father Sean Smith, C.C. +353-1-281 9253 E-mail contact: Nick Lowry, brandsmabooks@eircom.netMonthly:Diocese of Cork & Ross: (twice monthly) Ss.Peter & Paul's Church, Paul St., Cork. 3rd Sunday - 12 noon; 1st Saturday - 10am. Tel.: +353-21-4276573. E-mail contact: Maurice O'Brien, mauriceandjaneobrien@gmail.comwww.latinmassireland.orgDiocese of Kerry: Holy Cross Dominican Priory, Tralee, Co. Kerry. 3rd Sunday - 1.30 pm. Celebrant: Rev. Father John O’Rourke, O.P. Tel.: +353-66-7121135, E-mail contact: Anne Kiely, annekiely31@eircom.netDiocese of Raphoe: St. Brigid's Church, Golan, Co. Donegal. 1st Friday - 7 pm. Celebrant: Rev. Father Kevin Driver, C.C. Tel.: +353-74-9153280 Contact: Proinnsias O Muireagain, tel.: +353-74-9737307, e-mail: pomuiregain@eircom.net Diocese of Down & Connor: St. Paul's Church, Falls Road, Belfast BT12 6AB. 1st Saturday – 1pm. Contact: Mrs. Eileen Davey, Tel.: +44-28-90875546. (From Republic of Ireland: 048-90875546), E-mail: p.davey@mac.com www.latinmassireland.orgDiocese of Limerick: St. Patrick's Church, Dublin Road, Limerick. One Sunday a month, as announced - 11.15 am Celebrant: Rev. Father Wulfran Lebocq, ICRSS. Contact: Nestor family. Tel.: +353-61-355120. E-mail: vickynestor@gmail.com www.latinmassireland.orgArchdiocese of Dublin: Sodality of Our Lady, University Church, St. Stephen's Green, Dublin 2. 1st Saturday - 10.30 am. Contact: Thomas Murphy (Prefect). Tel.: +353-45-438312. E-mail: lepanto@catholic.org. Website: http://www.sodality.ie/ Archdiocese of Cashel & Emly: Church of St. Patrick & St. Brigid, Glengoole, Co Tipperary. 1st Thursday – 7 pm. Celebrant: Very Rev John J O'Rourke PP. Tel.: +353- 56-8834128, e-mail: jkfe2325@eircom.netOccasional MassesDiocese of Meath: Church of the Assumption, Batterstown, Co. Meath. Celebrant: Rev. Father Michael Cahill, C.C. Tel.: +353-1-8259267 (E-mail contact: Peadar Laighleis plaighleis@eircom.net) www.latinmassireland.orgDiocese of Raphoe: St. Michael's Church, Creeslough, Co. Donegal. Celebrant: Rev. Father Joseph Briody, C.C. Tel.: +353-74-9138011, e-mail: frbriody@hotmail.comDiocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh & Kilfenora: Contact: John Heneghan. Tel.: +353-93-31273. E-mail: john_heneghan@hotmail.com www.latinmassireland.orgPrivate MassesDiocese of Ferns: The Oratory, Coolcots, Wexford. Sundays - 10.30 pm; Saturdays - 9am; Wednesdays - 6.30 pm; other days - as announced. Celebrant: Rev. Father John Brady C.S.Sp . Tel.: +353-53-9147184, e-mail: frjpbrady@faithapostolate.ie Website: faithapostolate.ie/ Diocese of Killala: Rathduff, Ballina, Co. Mayo. Celebrant: Rev. Father Robert Rutledge. Tel.: +353-96-71377 Diocese of Meath: The Hermitage, Duleek, Co. Meath. Celebrant: Rev Father David Jones, O. Praem. (Hermit). Tel.: +353- 41-9823284 Diocese of Cloyne: St Colman’s Church, Macroom, Co. Cork. Mondays – 7.30 pm. Celebrant: Rev. Father Gabriel Burke, C.C. Tel.: +353-26-41247. Please note this Mass does not occur every Monday evening, so it is necessary to telephone in advance. Father Burke is spiritual adviser to the Munster Chapter of the Latin Mass Society of Ireland, www.latinmassireland.orgIt is strongly recommended that anyone intending to travel to these Masses telephone in advance.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Jun 26, 2008 18:12:55 GMT
That's old hat, Askel. EDI is pretty much confined to Dublin, with four Masses a year. The LMSI actually run the monthly traditional Masses in Cork, Limerick and Belfast (and help out in Tralee) and organise several annual Masses, while actively supporting campaigns for regular trad Masses in some dioceses. There is no comparison. Anyway, EDI can't even be regarded as the number 2 organisation in Ireland either. The Sodality of Our Lady and the St Conleth's Catholic Heritage Association both have a web presence and even the 'new kids on the block' (the St Colman's Society for Catholic Liturgy I keep bantering with Molagga about) have made more impact than EDI. Well, back to McDowell - radical or redundant. This applies as much to the other named organisations as it does to EDI. Am I the only one who finds this competitiveness and dissension among Traditionalists extremely disappointing? (I'm not referring to SSPX who obviously have a bigger agenda.) Is there any reason for it, and how can it be put right?
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Post by eircomnet on Jun 26, 2008 20:31:07 GMT
No Michael you're not alone. We really cannot afford divisiveness in a matter that is such an uphill struggle. I am prepared to support any group that is working to restore the Traditional Mass and we need to support one another in the struggle. Whether organised by LMSI or EDI,or even an independent group working on their own, I will go if it's reasonably possible. BTW next Traditional Mass in our area in Glengoole on July 1st 7.0pm
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jul 1, 2008 10:29:27 GMT
I'm not speaking for the LMSI which I know something about and I can't speak for anybody else. But I don't think competition is always a bad thing, if it leads groups to do more than what they would do.
However, you cannot compare most of the listed groups. The LMSI is the only group with a nationwide organisation. It is hard to see where Masses in Cork City, Limerick or Belfast would be without it and the fact Monkeyman is reporting the possibility of the Institute of Christ the King coming to Limerick is down to the LMSI. One of the reasons for this is that the LMSI took a decision not to be a Dublin based organisation.
Even if you group the Sodality of Our Lady and the St Conleth Association with EDI as it has a lot of common membership (with tensions), it does not compare with the LMSI. It is very Dublin focussed with some interest in Kildare and the annual Masses in Drogheda, Kildare and Holycross are principally directed at the society's Dublin members. If locals go along, that's good, but nothing more. If locals go along to an LMSI Mass, the LMSI want them to get involved and try to get more going in the location.
Pobal na hEireann, which I listed above out of charity have few members, espouse a wider programme than just the trad Mass and have done nothing. And the St Colman's Liturgy group seem to revolve around a Vatican based monsignor. Anyway, they are as happy with the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, so they are not traditionalist in the sense that all the other groups are.
If the LMSI has an advantage over smaller or independent groups, it is the fact that smaller groups have not a good record of delivering traditional Masses and three regular indult Masses disappeared because of independent minded leadership. It is much better that the traditional movement in Ireland exist in a network. That need not be an LMSI dominated network - but one could organise a national network in Ireland without any of the smaller groups; one could not organise a national network without the LMSI.
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Post by guillaume on Jul 1, 2008 11:35:35 GMT
I'm not speaking for the LMSI. Are you sure ? Be honest now and tell us the Truth.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jul 1, 2008 13:42:26 GMT
I am making a case for the LMSI, but I am not speaking for them.
There are several people involved in all four provinces and the only thing anyone can do is report on activity. If reporting is the same as speaking for them, well then you might say some one like Michael Kelly is speaking for them when he writes about them in the Irish Catholic. I am just doing that more efficiently because I have ready access to several sources of information. But there are initiatives going on in the LMSI that I don't know about, so nothing I can say is definitve.
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Post by mcallister on Jul 7, 2008 14:06:57 GMT
Alaisdir, this may have been the case before the MP but I have to say that I now find it a totally outmoded way of thinking. The motu proprio made it clear that the Mass is for everyone, it is up to local groups in parishes to request it. In fact the Motu Proprio will not have truly succeeded until groups like the LMSI have become unnecessary and people have claimed the Mass as their own. Really such groups only have a role when the Trad Mass is something unusual - once it takes its rightful place in the parishes there is very little need for a national network which (although necessary for a time) continues the false inpression that the TLM is the reserve of a few.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Jul 7, 2008 18:44:49 GMT
Alaisdir, this may have been the case before the MP but I have to say that I now find it a totally outmoded way of thinking. The motu proprio made it clear that the Mass is for everyone, it is up to local groups in parishes to request it. In fact the Motu Proprio will not have truly succeeded until groups like the LMSI have become unnecessary and people have claimed the Mass as their own. Really such groups only have a role when the Trad Mass is something unusual - once it takes its rightful place in the parishes there is very little need for a national network which (although necessary for a time) continues the false inpression that the TLM is the reserve of a few. Mcallister, you may be right in that a time will come (I hope) when the Extraordinary Form is a normal and regular occurence in most parishes, and groups like the LMSI or Ecclesia Dei have finished their work. But I think we are a long way from that. The Motu Proprio has given confidence to a lot of people but it is still valuable for them to have somewhere to look for advice and practical help in making their wishes known, often, still, in the face of passive or even active resistance and discouragement from priests and bishops.
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Post by mcallister on Jul 7, 2008 20:35:02 GMT
Yes Michael, I am in complete agreement, advice and practical help are still needed. That's where I see the role of the LMSI, EDI and other groups being important. However the impression I get from some of the posters here is that there is an internal competition going on for control whiich I have to say worries me. Is this whole thing about the Mass or about egos?
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