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Post by hibernicus on Aug 9, 2021 20:38:36 GMT
The crimes of Fr Joseph Marmion, in detail. It's necessary to face reality, though it hurts: - That ANYONE would do such things to children, especially when it's a teacher abusing their authority - That a priest and religious in particular would be guilty of such desecration - That others who vowed their lives to Jesus should have been negligent when they could have stopped this earlier and saved some victims We have to come to terms with this, just as we have to come to terms with the existence of certain Renaissance Popes. "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these brethren, you did it to me." marklambert.blogspot.com/2021/08/irish-jesuits-apologise-fr-joseph.html
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Post by hibernicus on Oct 5, 2021 18:46:30 GMT
More horrors, this time in France. I wonder will this make some US commentators less likely to suggest clerical abuse is a specifically Irish problem - though Irish Catholicism was more heavily influenced by its French counterpart than we now realise. What surprises me is the scale of the cover-up. Given the strong secularist and anticlerical culture in France, I wouldn't have expected something on this scale to be covered up for so long - though of course it may have made parents, teachers etc more unwilling to believe these things lest the philistines rejoice. Prayer and penitence are needed - and much else besides. marklambert.blogspot.com/2021/10/french-church-abuse-devastating.htmlwww.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58805963
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Oct 6, 2021 8:46:45 GMT
We should not be surprised at the French scandals. It seems to me that traditionalists are unwilling to admit there is a long history of paedophilia in the Church (remember St Peter Damian denounced it in the Book of Gomorrah in 1056), but progressives are unwilling to admit it went to the roof in the 1970s, in the secular world as well as in the Church.
There was a tendency among US and also Australian commentators to connect it with Ireland and the specific demons we have in this country. But as Hibernicus says, the French Church has an enormous influence in Ireland. It's not for nothing that professors in Maynooth wore the Sorbonne toga, nor that more priests were ordained in the Irish College in Paris than any other Irish seminary.
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Post by hibernicus on Oct 13, 2021 22:17:19 GMT
One aspect of this is that a certain type of Protestant polemicist used to publicise historical instances of paedophilia (and other sexual crimes) by priests to insinuate that all priests were at it, with the result that Catholics went into denial even about authentic cases. One problem of Anglophone Catholicism historically has been that as a disadvantaged (often immigrant) minority facing an often hostile mostly-Protestant majority there was a tendency for Catholics (and non-Catholics advocating fairness towards Catholics) to discourage discussion of the seamier side of Catholic history and to idealise historically Catholic societies. (Trads often seem to have the same problem.) The tendency for converts to see the Church as She is in essence while neglecting how her members often fall short in practice also contributes to this.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Nov 4, 2021 16:13:03 GMT
I am very sorry to hear that Father James Jackson, FSSP has been arrested in Providence, Rhode Island on charges of possession and trafficking child pornography. The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter has not been affected by scandals up until now (the Institute of Christ the King has, unfortunately), and I hope that Father Jackson is innocent of this charge.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 5, 2021 21:56:58 GMT
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pugio
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by pugio on Nov 18, 2021 16:48:21 GMT
Mankowski makes many fair points, but it is not clear why he imagines that a critical mass of unsuitable characters entered the priesthood only at a certain time rather than recognising this as part of a more deeply rooted pattern which has only come to light in recent decades.
When I hear Catholic commentators suggesting that the endemic sexual abuse of children and minors can be attributed to insufficient ascetic stringency, I can only sigh with a mixture of bafflement and despair.
It has long seemed painfully obvious to me that the celibacy requirement for the Roman Catholic priesthood has made it a permanent and powerful magnet for people with profound psycho-sexual issues. This is manifestly the nub of the problem and no amount of psychometric testing, fasting, or cold showers is going to change that dynamic.
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Post by assisi on Nov 20, 2021 20:08:21 GMT
Mankowski makes many fair points, but it is not clear why he imagines that a critical mass of unsuitable characters entered the priesthood only at a certain time rather than recognising this as part of a more deeply rooted pattern which has only come to light in recent decades. When I hear Catholic commentators suggesting that the endemic sexual abuse of children and minors can be attributed to insufficient ascetic stringency, I can only sigh with a mixture of bafflement and despair. It has long seemed painfully obvious to me that the celibacy requirement for the Roman Catholic priesthood has made it a permanent and powerful magnet for people with profound psycho-sexual issues. This is manifestly the nub of the problem and no amount of psychometric testing, fasting, or cold showers is going to change that dynamic. The problems of the scandals, just like the problems of the current political and cultural madness that we find ourselves in today, are so complex that most people are overwhelmed by the idea of understanding them and trying to solve them. The rot is from the core of the fruit, not just some superficial skin deep rot that can be easily seen and cut out. We can't change the past, so it is better that we try to solve the current and future situation. However I am afraid to say that probably a growing number of men will be experiencing some kind of psycho-sexual issues due to the widespread use of pornography and their addiction to it, perhaps not 'profound', but certainly significant. In the current climate homosexuals no longer need to hide in the priesthood as they are 'celebrated' in the public domain. Hopefully that means less in the priesthood. I do think that the 1960s free love and 'if it feels good, do it' philosophy probably did embolden more clerics to abuse, but this is hard to prove because there are no reliable historic data to compare. I would say that our main target should be to look at the hierarchy of the church from Bishops to the Pope. It really does seem that they exist in a bubble and are either compromised themselves or are simply turning their back and they don't want to see the unpleasantness in front of their eyes. You can sense a total lack of confidence within the Church hierarchy due to constant rollout of modernity and secularism. They don't communicate the vigour of a confident Catholic ethos, ready to do spiritual battle. Apart from a select few, they seem to want to keep their heads down and avoid controversy which is no good. On a brighter point, not one of the priests that I have come across in my time as a Catholic has been accused of child abuse. Many have passed away and have been praised by all. I'm sure they were not saints but they seemed to be generally speaking, good men. I do think that we should acknowledge these men and use their memory as a spur to create a better priesthood and clerical hierarchy.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 21, 2021 20:54:54 GMT
I dwell on the scandals so much because they have to be faced up to. I wish those crimes did not take place, but as they did they have to be addressed. Moreover, since the whole world knows of them, trying to pass them over is like the proverbial ostrich putting his head in the sand and thinking that because he can see nothing no-one can see him.
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 18, 2022 0:44:01 GMT
There are claims afoot of problems with Silverstream Priory. These do not involve physical abuse but questionable behaviour. I won't say more at this stage - wait for matters to become clearer.
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Post by hibernicus on Apr 2, 2022 23:32:24 GMT
Have been reading Jacinta Prunty's book on the Magdalen asyla run by the order of Our Lady of Charity in Ireland. This order is the original order founded by St John Eudes - the better-known Good Shepherd Order is a breakaway from the 1830s which became larger than the original order. The major difference is that OLC was a grouping of independent convents (though its original convent at Caen, founded by St John Eudes, had a place of particular honour), whereas OGS was a centralised federation with a Mother-General; the two orders have now merged. OLC in Ireland was confined to the Dublin Archdiocese, with houses at High Park (Drumcondra) and Sean MacDermott Street as well as smaller homes at Kilmacud and Kill o'the Grange founded under the episcopate of John Charles McQuaid. Some points come to mind: - (1) The book is based on OLC's official records and is very much a nun's eye view, showing the nuns as they saw themselves, as they aspired to be, or as they would have wished to be seen by others. Relatively little is recorded about the penitents, both for confidentiality, and until the last decades there seems to have been little attempt at follow-up; it is often unclear why penitents were admitted in the first place, though it is clear many were prostitutes or seen as in danger. The critical reader will note quite a few possibilities for unrecorded cattiness or pharisaism. (2) That said, some of the worse accusations don't apply to the OCL institutions. Only a small number of inmates, mostly on remand and from the 1940s, were sent there by the courts, the OCL seem to have been reluctant to leave them and they certainly were not detained indefinitely against their will; inmates were able to leave, and there are quite a few examples of those who left and returned repeatedly and eventually spent their last years with the nuns; the institutions were run on a shoestring and under financial strain, increasing as from the early 60s large institutions and hotels became more likely to do their own laundry; numerous changes and relaxations in the discipline took place in the later decades, with more emphasis on gaining social work qualifications for the nuns and on career preparation for the inmates. (3) John Charles McQuaid (who insisted on OLC in the archdiocese becoming a diocesan federation to forestall any wider federation with OGS - in line with his view that religious orders ought to be subordinate to the diocesan bishop) comes across as something of a moderniser, explicitly and repeatedly calling for a move away from the penitentiary model, pressing the nuns to gain social work qualifications and undertake new responsibilities. This is certainly not how he is usually portrayed. His administrative and canon law skills are also much in evidence. (4) One interesting point is that before Vatican II the nuns were encouraged to venerate St John Eudes and follow the devotions he devised for them, but not to read his full works or study his life in detail as Eudist priests did. This certainly seems problematic. (5) As we saw, change had already begun in the 50s but stepped up exponentially after Vatican II. What is interesting is that Prunty seems to regard the changes imposed from above (such as the abrupt abolition of enclosure for non-contemplative orders, which IMHO would have been a good idea for some -including OLC given the nature of their work - but not necessarily for all, or the sidelining of specifically Eudist devotions and liturgical commemorations) are treated as unquestionably desirable and facts of life rather than being assessed in terms of their implications and effects, which might allow for some criticism. A very useful study but readers should note its limitations, and that it represents only one of the orders that ran such institutions and may not be representative of all.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Apr 3, 2022 13:19:16 GMT
Have been reading Jacinta Prunty's book on the Magdalen asyla run by the order of Our Lady of Charity in Ireland. This order is the original order founded by St John Eudes - the better-known Good Shepherd Order is a breakaway from the 1830s which became larger than the original order. The major difference is that OLC was a grouping of independent convents (though its original convent at Caen, founded by St John Eudes, had a place of particular honour), whereas OGS was a centralised federation with a Mother-General; the two orders have now merged. OLC in Ireland was confined to the Dublin Archdiocese, with houses at High Park (Drumcondra) and Sean MacDermott Street as well as smaller homes at Kilmacud and Kill o'the Grange founded under the episcopate of John Charles McQuaid. Some points come to mind: - (1) The book is based on OLC's official records and is very much a nun's eye view, showing the nuns as they saw themselves, as they aspired to be, or as they would have wished to be seen by others. Relatively little is recorded about the penitents, both for confidentiality, and until the last decades there seems to have been little attempt at follow-up; it is often unclear why penitents were admitted in the first place, though it is clear many were prostitutes or seen as in danger. The critical reader will note quite a few possibilities for unrecorded cattiness or pharisaism. (2) That said, some of the worse accusations don't apply to the OCL institutions. Only a small number of inmates, mostly on remand and from the 1940s, were sent there by the courts, the OCL seem to have been reluctant to leave them and they certainly were not detained indefinitely against their will; inmates were able to leave, and there are quite a few examples of those who left and returned repeatedly and eventually spent their last years with the nuns; the institutions were run on a shoestring and under financial strain, increasing as from the early 60s large institutions and hotels became more likely to do their own laundry; numerous changes and relaxations in the discipline took place in the later decades, with more emphasis on gaining social work qualifications for the nuns and on career preparation for the inmates. (3) John Charles McQuaid (who insisted on OLC in the archdiocese becoming a diocesan federation to forestall any wider federation with OGS - in line with his view that religious orders ought to be subordinate to the diocesan bishop) comes across as something of a moderniser, explicitly and repeatedly calling for a move away from the penitentiary model, pressing the nuns to gain social work qualifications and undertake new responsibilities. This is certainly not how he is usually portrayed. His administrative and canon law skills are also much in evidence. (4) One interesting point is that before Vatican II the nuns were encouraged to venerate St John Eudes and follow the devotions he devised for them, but not to read his full works or study his life in detail as Eudist priests did. This certainly seems problematic. (5) As we saw, change had already begun in the 50s but stepped up exponentially after Vatican II. What is interesting is that Prunty seems to regard the changes imposed from above (such as the abrupt abolition of enclosure for non-contemplative orders, which IMHO would have been a good idea for some -including OLC given the nature of their work - but not necessarily for all, or the sidelining of specifically Eudist devotions and liturgical commemorations) are treated as unquestionably desirable and facts of life rather than being assessed in terms of their implications and effects, which might allow for some criticism. A very useful study but readers should note its limitations, and that it represents only one of the orders that ran such institutions and may not be representative of all. John Charles McQuaid seems to have been theologically conservative but often forward-looking in terms of evangelization and modernization. It was him who sent the Radharc team to learn broadcasting in the very early days of television.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Oct 20, 2022 14:06:55 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Oct 25, 2022 16:15:01 GMT
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Post by hibernicus on May 13, 2023 0:47:43 GMT
This sort of horror never ceases to disgust and amaze. It never should cease to do so. The story of a Spanish Jesuit missionary in South America who used his order's educational mission to prey on poor children who were silenced because education was their only chance of escaping extreme poverty, and the failure of numerous superiors to put a permanent stop to his actions. This has come to light because he kept a diary, which his family released to the secular press. How many more such cases were there- not just involving Spaniards? www.pillarcatholic.com/p/bolivian-bishops-offer-solidarity/comments
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