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Post by annie on Aug 18, 2018 22:30:53 GMT
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Post by Account Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 23:16:35 GMT
The Church needs to take the issue of homosexual priests and gay clerical sub-culture to task once and for all, with a policy to root it out, and even a zero tolerance attitude where necessary. The cost of not doing so will be too high now. The American scandals may well be the thing that starts the purge. American Catholics are far more vocal and will take no nonsense from Church authorities' intransigence or incompetence in this, as we did for too long.
The irony if they do this, of course, is that the secular gay lobby will then say they are persecuting homosexuals in a "witch hunt". The same lobby will refuse, of course, to acknowledge that homosexual tendencies have anything to do with hebephilia and ephebophilia, contributory to the abuse scandals.
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Post by annie on Aug 19, 2018 0:00:06 GMT
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Post by assisi on Aug 20, 2018 21:51:40 GMT
The irony if they do this, of course, is that the secular gay lobby will then say they are persecuting homosexuals in a "witch hunt". The same lobby will refuse, of course, to acknowledge that homosexual tendencies have anything to do with hebephilia and ephebophilia, contributory to the abuse scandals. . That lobby group would be on very slippery ground if it was to protest. The secular liberals are aggressively pushing the 'MeToo' type campaigns that outed Hollywood's culture of people in power jobs demanding sex and favours from younger and more naive actors/actresses. That's exactly the same as the Cardinal who uses his influence and power to abuse a young seminarian. The only thing I would say is that whoever steps forth to take this forward should be armed with credible and verifiable data that shows this problem within the church.
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Post by Account Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 22:20:40 GMT
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Post by annie on Aug 24, 2018 13:52:53 GMT
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Post by assisi on Aug 25, 2018 21:03:30 GMT
Here's a paragraph from the executive summary: The largest group of alleged victims (50.9%) was between the ages of 11 and 14, 27.3% were 15-17, 16% were 8-10 and nearly 6% were under age 7. Overall, 81% of victims were male and 19% female. Male victims tended to be older than female victims. Over 40% of all victims were males between the ages of 11 and 14.Now, it's a big report and I haven't found a more detailed analysis of victim gender/age breakdown (though that may be there somewhere). But applying the same male:female ratio between the 50.9% and 40% of 11-14 year olds to the 27.3% in the higher age bracket, a rough estimate would indicate that some 62% of victims would be males between 11 and 17 years of age. That figure may be slightly higher as 'Male victims tended to be older than female victims'. If anyone sees more accurate figures in the report, please quote them.
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Post by Account Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 22:29:01 GMT
Now, it's a big report and I haven't found a more detailed analysis of victim gender/age breakdown (though that may be there somewhere). But applying the same male:female ratio between the 50.9% and 40% of 11-14 year olds to the 27.3% in the higher age bracket, a rough estimate would indicate that some 62% of victims would be males between 11 and 17 years of age. That figure may be slightly higher as 'Male victims tended to be older than female victims'. If anyone sees more accurate figures in the report, please quote them. Not sure about your maths there assisi. Table 3.5.4, p53, is the detailed one to work off -> 70% of all abuses were male 11-17yrs. The table after it (3.5.1) reveals that, for whatever reason, most of the cases happened during the 60s, 70s, and began to decline in the eighties, at their lowest in the 90s. When they increased in the 60s/70s there began proportionately more male victims (alleged) - markedly so, by a factor of about 6 times. Report also states that males are more likely not to come forward to report abuse than females, so the proportion of male victims could be slightly higher still. "there was a significant difference between genders, with four out of five alleged victims being male. " "The majority of alleged victims were post-pubescent, with only a small percentage of priests receiving allegations of abusing young children. " (p68) The big question is why such an increase/spike in that period. Was it something to do with the priests being ordained in the 50s/60s, and/or was it to do with how abuse was being dealt with by bishops (or not dealt with) during the 60s/70s?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:54:40 GMT
Just thought I'd post this here. I can't say I know much about this Youtuber H3H3 (Ethan Klein), but I do know of him as he is someone who has been on the site for a very long time. Unfortunately, he seems to be quite a disingenuous prat. He asks "What does the Catholic Church actually do, other than rape kids?" Well, like most religions, I'm guessing he should understand that it claims to be the holder of divine truth, hence why people still attend despite the abuse. Ethan is also Jewish, so his question is completely asked in bad faith as he should understand; and that's to say nothing of the abuse going on within his own religion.
The girl in the video is his wife, Hila. It's hard to know what she's thinking as I don't watch this podcast. She may not entirely agree with everything he says, or she might just be a quiet person; but she does bring up a story about a religious (Jewish) person in her neighbourhood as a child who suspiciously invited the local children to their house for ice-pops. Her father wouldn't let her go. I think perhaps she was trying to bring balance, but maybe not.
He also suggests that the Church should be shut down. How he plans to go about achieving this, I'm not sure.
Also, I would like to point out a bit of a trap being laid out for Catholics, that the accusers must be called out on. Catholics are being accused of being part of the problem for remaining within the Church (I've seen this on Youtube and Journal.) This will naturally force Catholics into being defencive, but when they do become defencive they are accused of deflecting from the situation and being pedophile apologists. People like this often don't care about the victims primarily, and will show themselves to have other issues with the Church (angsty, self-important atheists; Protestant conspiracy theorists; etc.) For e.g., one of the protest groups that operated under the guise of fighting for the victims of abuse actually only had them as a second priority, with women priests being first.
Just thought I'd let people know. Don't let these fork-tongued scumbags try and paint you as a pedophile protector for remaining in the Church. They complain about the Church being full of pedophiles one moment, then they try to shame good people for remaining within the Church the next, in order to prevent it from being completely over-run.
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Post by Account Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 22:20:00 GMT
Just thought I'd post this here. I can't say I know much about this Youtuber H3H3 (Ethan Klein), but I do know of him as he is someone who has been on the site for a very long time. Unfortunately, he seems to be quite a disingenuous prat. He asks "What does the Catholic Church actually do, other than rape kids?" Well, like most religions, I'm guessing he should understand that it claims to be the holder of divine truth, hence why people still attend despite the abuse. Ethan is also Jewish, so his question is completely asked in bad faith as he should understand; and that's to say nothing of the abuse going on within his own religion.
The girl in the video is his wife, Hila. It's hard to know what she's thinking as I don't watch this podcast. She may not entirely agree with everything he says, or she might just be a quiet person; but she does bring up a story about a religious (Jewish) person in her neighbourhood as a child who suspiciously invited the local children to their house for ice-pops. Her father wouldn't let her go. I think perhaps she was trying to bring balance, but maybe not.
He also suggests that the Church should be shut down. How he plans to go about achieving this, I'm not sure.
Also, I would like to point out a bit of a trap being laid out for Catholics, that the accusers must be called out on. Catholics are being accused of being part of the problem for remaining within the Church (I've seen this on Youtube and Journal.) This will naturally force Catholics into being defencive, but when they do become defencive they are accused of deflecting from the situation and being pedophile apologists. People like this often don't care about the victims primarily, and will show themselves to have other issues with the Church (angsty, self-important atheists; Protestant conspiracy theorists; etc.) For e.g., one of the protest groups that operated under the guise of fighting for the victims of abuse actually only had them as a second priority, with women priests being first.
Just thought I'd let people know. Don't let these fork-tongued scumbags try and paint you as a pedophile protector for remaining in the Church. They complain about the Church being full of pedophiles one moment, then they try to shame good people for remaining within the Church the next, in order to prevent it from being completely over-run.
I don't know where to start with this one - there's a lot that could be said. A short answer I'd give to those accusing Catholics "of being part of the problem for remaining within the Church": We do not abandon Christ because of what Judas did.
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Post by Account Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 14:58:10 GMT
I've given it a bit more thought, and there's another very important thing to say about being defensive, and accusations of deflecting.
Christians are people concerned with Truth. I do feel, first and foremost at this time, we have an obligation to the truth. There are a lot of untruths and half-truths doing the rounds at the moment. I feel an obligation ( - hope you all do too - ) to correct any untruths out there, and at the same time get down to discover the truth of the scandals. It's the only constructive way through this. We should speak the truth when we hear untruths, and leave it at that - let the other decide for themselves. Maybe we should do no more than that, but should we do any less than that?
A case in point: the first minute of that video is filled with untruth. The youtuber makes no distinction between allegation and substantiated abuses. He also makes no effort to understand the historic timeline of these allegations, but gives the impression they are all happening at once, and uses that as a basis to state that 30% of priests in Pennsylvania are currently abusing. False. I stopped watching after that. There's a lot of that going on with this report right now. The report seems designed to shock, and yet provides no useful help in understanding the problem (or the solution). They supoena'd the abuse allegation details and dumped the worst into a report, without any of the more rigorous analysis of the John Jay Report (conducted by academics in the field). Any account of child abuse is horrific, and we as a church should do all we can discover the truth, so we can protect innocents in future, and heal. I would always give ear to anyone genuinely concerned about abuse and "cover-ups" when their motivation is to help abuse victims in or outside the church and assist the people of the church with that task, but the most vocal seem to have another motivation, such as his calling for a shut-down of the church. We should at least avoid propagating or sharing this youtuber's types of untruths or half-truths, and preferably counter them with truth. We also need to counteract the perception that child protection in the church has not improved vastly (particularly in Ireland).
I would feel no obligation to anyone (but God) to justify speaking, or seeking, truth.
I also don't know how he would "shut down" Christ's message. The church is the people that follow that message. It's been given once, and for all time. It is never withdrawn, never ends. It's the path of salvation, the path to follow out of this latest perceived persecution of our faith. This too shall pass.
Sorry for harping on, but it's just how I see things at the moment.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 27, 2018 20:22:41 GMT
The fact that he is Jewish doesn't mean he's religious - Judaism can be an ethnic as well as a religious identity, and secular Jews are a well-known phenomenon. So the charge of hypocrisy is not necessarily correct. The claim that Catholics who remain observant are thereby complicit in abuse has been made implicitly and explicitly by various Irish journalists for quite some time. The trouble is that the sheer scale and horror of the abuse (and indeed of the negligence and cover-ups) is such that large numbers of people will have the impression that it's still going on in full vigour. In that sense it's an indication of how the atmosphere is developing.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 31, 2018 20:59:59 GMT
I take an interest in film, and some years ago I watched the film BAD LIEUTENANT by Abel Ferrara (a bargain-basement Scorsese who combines sensationalism with Catholic or pseudo-Catholic themes of suffering and repentance) on late-night television. I have no desire to see it again; those with strong stomachs can see a plot summary here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_LieutenantWhat disgusted me most about the film was not the grisly portrayal of the Lieutenant's vices, but the fact that the nun whose rape and brutal beating by two thugs is at the centre of the plot is presented as being saintly because she does not merely forgive her assailants (which of course is virtuous) but she actively refuses to help the police investigate the crime or assist them in catching the thugs in any way whatever. To be fair, I can think of some saints who are supposed to have reacted similarly, but as portrayed in the film this behaviour strikes me as the very opposite of saintly, because it is leaving dangerous and violent criminals free to attack others. This reminds me of the sort of "cheap grace" preached by people who used to object to the pursuit and trial of nazi war criminals as vindictive. (The film-maker's attitude is probably influenced by a detail of the film which I have not mentioned so far - that the thugs are black. This of course is completely irrelevant since the film makes it quite clear that they are in fact guilty.) Only a day or two ago, when I was thinking about the misuse of the concept of "mercy" by so many church authorities to justify leaving abusers free to abuse again, did it occur to me that this wretched film is an example of the view that forgiveness and punishment are incompatible, seeping into the broader culture.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 13:56:36 GMT
According to Church Militant, Cardinal Wuerl has disappeared; apparently lying low until he can be snuck out of the US to the Vatican
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 13, 2018 20:38:31 GMT
Rod Dreher offers some thoughts on the reported abuse conviction of Cardinal Pell. This is grim news for anyone accustomed to admire Cardinal Pell (and the alternative theory, that he was somehow framed because he trod on too many toes in trying to scour out the dodgier corners of Vatican finance, is equally disturbing). Comment should be minimal until we get a fuller picture. In the meantime, pray for all concerned. www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/cardinal-pell-convicted/
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