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Post by Noelfitz on Dec 30, 2008 15:55:21 GMT
Hibernicus
Thank you for your post. Anti-Semitism does sound to me like being antagonistic to Semites, however I do accept it is usually considered to be restricted to Jews.
Can I hair split again? Why "anglo-American"? This seems like "catholic chapels" and "Protestant Churches".
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 31, 2008 11:25:59 GMT
Anglo-american because this sort of mass literature is shared by both countries; however, the examples I am thinking (a movie about a plane hijacking, a science fiction novel by the obnoxious militarist Larry Niven) of are all American-produced. I don't know enough about the COntinental equivalent to know if the same is true of equivalent material there.
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Post by Noelfitz on Dec 31, 2008 15:26:21 GMT
Hibernicus,
You had 'anglo-American' and now you have 'Anglo-american'.
However Israel must be condemned in the clearest terms at present. The killings in Gaza are designed to boost support in Israeli elections. This view is not anti-Semitic.
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Post by mrsreneoriordan on Jan 3, 2009 18:43:06 GMT
I dont think Hamas care one fig about the Palestinian people in Gaza. Why don't they stop firing missiles accross at Israel and why do they use school yards to launch them from. I too feel great pity for the Palestinians but I think Hamas are mad.! The other Arab states are not supporting them and the pleas from the PLO to stop firing rockets at Israel went unheeded. Also observe the rockets have increased their range, where did they get that equipment;- throught the tunnels they built connecting them to Egypt; not to bring in food and much needed medical supplies, but further reaching missiles. I just don't think it's fair to be too one-sided about this. Blessings - Rene
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Post by Noelfitz on Jan 3, 2009 21:50:07 GMT
Mrs O'Riordan,
It is completely unacceptable for Israelis to kill innocent men, women and children in their hundreds.
Gaza seems worse that ghettos in the past.
About 1.5 million Palestinians are locked into a small territory and Israelis attack them from the air night after night.
I am reminded of the Israelis attack on Lebanon which gave a great victory to Hizbollah. Again hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent victims were killed, leading possibly to Israel's first defeat in the Middle East since 1948.
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Post by guillaume on Jan 4, 2009 13:32:41 GMT
Mrs O'Riordan, It is completely unacceptable for Israelis to kill innocent men, women and children in their hundreds. Gaza seems worse that ghettos in the past. About 1.5 million Palestinians are locked into a small territory and Israelis attack them from the air night after night. I am reminded of the Israelis attack on Lebanon which gave a great victory to Hizbollah. Again hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent victims were killed, leading possibly to Israel's first defeat in the Middle East since 1948. Hamass being a terrorist organisation....... and Mohammedan. In which way we should stand for ? the Israelites ? or the Allah worshippers ?
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Post by Noelfitz on Jan 4, 2009 19:00:30 GMT
Guillaume
Is Hamas (or as you wrote Hamass) a terrorist orgaiization? Is Sinn Fein a terrorist organization?
Israelites have long gone. There are Israelis.
You mention Allah worshippers. Is it really harmful to worship God?
Both Jews and Muslims, as well as Christians, worship one God.
Sinn Fein, like Hamas, has a military wing. However Hamas "holds a majority of seats in the elected legislative council of the Palestinian National Authority.. . establishing hospitals, education systems, libraries and other services"(Wikipedia).
The current invasion of Gaza is an election ploy prior to next month's election. Margaret Thatcher found a good war gets votes.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 5, 2009 12:50:00 GMT
Calling the boycott of Jewish owned shops in Limerick a 'pogrom' debases the term and minimizes what happens in real pogroms. Secondly, in Ireland Jews have contributed very much to Irish life. Some years ago, out of less than two thousand Jews in Ireland, there were three TDs, one in each of the major political parties, Ben Briscoe (FF), Alan Shatter (FG) and Mervyn Taylor (Lab). It is not being anti-Jewish to condemn utterly the digraceful behaviour of Israel at present in Gaza. Being Anti-Jew, anti-semitic and anti-zionist qre three different things. The zenith of Jewish influence in Ireland was in 1997 between the appointment of Mr Justice Henry Barron to the Supreme Court and the end of term of the then government, in which Mervyn Taylor was a cabinet minister. Belfast, Dublin and Cork all had Jewish Lord Mayors. As for Irish influence in Israel, take a look at this clip: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4-I3ig6_lY and try to identify the accent. The distinctions between anti-judaism, anti-semitism and anti-zionism are clearly there, but I know of people who use the first and third to deflect from the second - Father Denis Fahey was an example of an anti-semite using theological language to cover up his anti-semitism. In future, I suggest discussion of recent events in Gaza City should happen on "Israel and Palestine" thread and I intend to open a thread on Catholic integralism to discuss specifically Catholic anti-semitism in the context of the whole package that Hibernicus and I discussed above.
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Post by Noelfitz on Jan 5, 2009 13:36:38 GMT
Ireland has the honour of being the only country that had a Chief Rabbi and President of Israel, Herzog.
Also Mr Briscoe was the best Lord Mayor of Dublin Jerusalem ever had.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 5, 2009 14:50:20 GMT
Ireland has the honour of being the only country that had a Chief Rabbi and President of Israel, Herzog. Also Mr Briscoe was the best Lord Mayor of Dublin Jerusalem ever had. Which Lord Mayor Briscoe do you mean? And given that all the non-Briscoe mayors of Dublin were goyim, why should Jerusalem have a better Lord Mayor of Dublin than either? Likewise, the Herzogs, the Chief Rabbi and President, were also father and son. I see the current Israeli President, Shimon Peres, was born in Poland (now Belarus) - I am sure you'll find a compatriot of his among the various Chief Rabbis of Israel and so forth as you research the matter further.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 7, 2009 23:53:41 GMT
To return to a moment to the history of anti-semitism in Ireland: The case of Oliver J Flanagan's famous remarks during World War II is a disturbing one (for those who don't remember he criticised the use of emergency legislation against the IRA and suggested it should instead be used against "the Jews, who crucified our Saviour and are crucifying us every day of the week") precisely because it appears to have been a case of anti-semitism by casual osmosis. It would have been unthinkable for an obsessive anti-semite like Fr. Fahey to renounce his anti-semitism because it was at the very core of his worldview, whereas Flanagan in later life apologised for these statements (I heard him do so at a public meeting in te early 1980s, at which he also stated that as a MEP in the 1970s he lobbied in favour of persecuted Soviet Jews); nevertheless had Ireland been occupied by the Axis in the 1940s such views might have led him down a very dark path indeed. My family (traditional Fine Gaelers who switched to Fianna Fail in the late 70s in opposition to the liberal agenda) revered Oliver J as a hero and in some ways he did deserve this title - he could have had a much quieter time at the end of his career had he gone along with the liberal agenda as certain other FG veterans did. I think his piety was genuine (I remember reading an interview in which he said that every Sunday after Mass he spent five minutes meditating at the gravesite where he would be buried) but it co-existed with some extraordinarily ruthless and unscrupulous political practices (for example, he openly and repeatedly advocated jobbery and the preferential treatment of party supporters when making public appointments). I think to a great extent this undermined his witness in other matters, and even now his anti-Jew speech from the 1940s is still quoted as exemplifying the horrors of Old Ireland. If we want to claim the mantle and carry on what was good in it, and in him, we must acknowledge the faults of both and try to do better -and to imitate his virtues. I remember at that meeting (addressing a student audience predominantly hostile to him) he struck those present by his sincerity. Pray for him.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 9, 2009 15:28:42 GMT
I am a very occasional visitor to the HARRY'S PLACE blog (basically run by left-wing journalists supporters of Mr. Blair's foreign policy). Recently I came across the following comment on a strand at www.hurryupharry.org/2008/09/24/a-lot-to-lern-about-shamir/ (discussing the folly of a left-wing Jewish magazine publishing an article by a writer who calls himself "Israel Shamir" and claims to be Jewish, but basically preaches a form of religious anti-semitism including belief in a Jewish conspiracy for world domination: [comment follows] Given I have this weird obsession of attending meetings held by crack pots, a couple of weeks ago I heard Tony Greenstein speak his gibberish at the Green Left event but this Friday- I am likely to attend a meeting by Israel Shamir Details of the loon event is below: The Church, Israel and Anti-Semitism An evening of talks and discussion with two internationally-renowned writers in association with the Pro Fide Forum. Dr E. Michael Jones, author of Is Notre Dame Still Catholic? Degenerate Moderns and The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit. Israel Shamir, author of Galilee Flowers, Our Lady of Sorrow and Masters of Discourse. Friday September 26, 6.00 - 9.00 St Vincent Centre, Carlisle Place London SW1P 1NL (nearest tube: Victoria) ADMISSION £5 I may take a sick bag with me… [comment ends] E Michael Jones has already come up on this thread. No Catholic organisation should have anything to do with either of these men let alone giving them a platform. On doing a Google search I was horrified to discover that the Pro Fide Forum has links to Daphne McLeod's PRO ECCLESIA ET PONTIFICE. Does anyone know what on earth they are playing at by hosting this sort of meeting? Maybe they are misled by Jones' past apologetic credentials, but in my view he is now deeply contaminated and should be shunned while he remains in his present state For further details on "Israel Shamir" see his Wikipedia entry, linked below: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shamir
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jan 23, 2009 11:10:03 GMT
Yes, Hibernicus, this stuff is scary. Have we learned nothing from the 3rd Reich?
Pro Fide? There was an Irish group called Pro Fide which was associated with Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice. But that has folded and its remit was just catechetics. This is a different outfit here.
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Post by Noelfitz on Jan 23, 2009 16:10:50 GMT
Perhaps some are being too negative here about Irish Catholic Jewish relations.
I note:
"At a time of raging anti-Semitism, Frank Duff sought to reach out to the Jews and accordingly The Pillar of Fire Society was formed. The response of the Jewish community was enthusiastic, as evidenced, in a letter from Laurence Elyan, a civil servant and actor: ‘I cannot tell you how delighted I was to get your letter.... I am convinced that we would be doing God’s work in promoting a better understanding between our respective co-religionists.’ (Elyan to León Ó Broin, 27/9/42, Dublin Diocesan Archives)."
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 27, 2009 12:01:59 GMT
Yes, Noelfitz, this is correct. And Archbishop McQuaid was much more severe with Pillar of Fire than Maria Duce.
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