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hummm
Nov 26, 2008 14:28:02 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Nov 26, 2008 14:28:02 GMT
I think the really important divide is between "hermeneutic of rupture" and "hermeneutic of reform/continuity". The first, which is shared by liberals and by "radtrads", is that Vatican II represents a breach with the Church's past on such a scale that the result is something completely new and irreconcilable with the old; for this mindset the only alternatives are wholesale embrace of the new and rejection of the past, or rejection of the new and return to the past. The second holds that in the Church's history every age is equidistant from God; the past is a resource to be drawn on, not a fossil or a lost golden age.
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hummm
Nov 26, 2008 16:05:15 GMT
Post by Harris on Nov 26, 2008 16:05:15 GMT
Sounds like this Forum is dying. No post from anyone in 24 hours. Maybe, thanks to the atheists "friends", who managed well to annoy us with their "no evidence"..... A provocative post, to wake you up. Well it did slow down for a week or so but it appears things are gradually starting to get up and running again.
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hummm
Dec 9, 2008 11:28:27 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Dec 9, 2008 11:28:27 GMT
RE; biritualism - I came across this term in the debates over thequestion of whether FSSP priests in a diocese should be obliged to concelebrate in the bishop's annual Novus ORdo chrism masses, so I adopted it. Biformalist is Ok with me. Can we have more posts, please - preferably not from Jibril?
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hummm
Dec 9, 2008 12:42:58 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on Dec 9, 2008 12:42:58 GMT
RE; biritualism - I came across this term in the debates over thequestion of whether FSSP priests in a diocese should be obliged to concelebrate in the bishop's annual Novus ORdo chrism masses, so I adopted it. Biformalist is Ok with me. Can we have more posts, please - preferably not from Jibril? I know. This began around 1999 when a number of French FSSP priests suggested concelebrating the Holy Thursday chrism Mass and generated a storm. People like Michael Davies and the Remnant gang siezed on the term 'biritualist', which was denied at the time by the then FSSP Superior General, Father Devillers (I heard him say this in Dublin during one of his visits here). But whatever about Fr Devillers' opinion, Summorum Pontificum states there is only one Roman rite with two forms - the ordinary and extraordinary.
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hummm
Dec 10, 2008 13:35:27 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Dec 10, 2008 13:35:27 GMT
Jibril - It was William Blake the poet - the fact that you think he was a Church of England bishop gives a good idea of your mental capacities. I take it that your self-description amounts to saying that you are a member of the Greek Catholic Ukranian Church in communion with Rome. Pity that poor Church, she has had so many troubles over the last century and now she has you as a member.
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hummm
Dec 12, 2008 9:30:03 GMT
Post by Hemingway on Dec 12, 2008 9:30:03 GMT
Jibril - It was William Blake the poet - the fact that you think he was a Church of England bishop gives a good idea of your mental capacities. I take it that your self-description amounts to saying that you are a member of the Greek Catholic Ukranian Church in communion with Rome. Pity that poor Church, she has had so many troubles over the last century and now she has you as a member. Hibernicus, Are you Catholic? You sure do not sound like one? Is this the pot calling the kettle black by any chance?
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hummm
Dec 12, 2008 9:32:30 GMT
Post by Harris on Dec 12, 2008 9:32:30 GMT
Hibernicus, Are you Catholic? You sure do not sound like one? How can someone with this individuals record even make this statement with a straight face!!!!!!
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hummm
Dec 12, 2008 19:38:03 GMT
Post by Michael O'Donovan on Dec 12, 2008 19:38:03 GMT
Hibernicus, Are you Catholic? You sure do not sound like one? I'm sure Hibernicus can speak for himself but I find your question puzzling. Hibernicus's posts have been by far some of the most orthodox and eloquent in this forum.
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hummm
Dec 13, 2008 18:33:02 GMT
Post by Michael O'Donovan on Dec 13, 2008 18:33:02 GMT
Michael, I prayed for Hibernicus the Our Father in Irish Gaelic, Latin and English and he ridiculed me? That is not orthodox nor eloquent. Are we not allowed to pray for one another on a Catholic forum? Gabriel, it was not at all clear why you posted the three versions of the Our Father.
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hummm
Dec 15, 2008 16:13:15 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Dec 15, 2008 16:13:15 GMT
I consider myself primarily Byzantine Orthodox. Then I will assume you are not a Catholic. If you were, you would use the terms 'Greek Catholic', 'Byzantine Catholic' or 'Eastern Catholic'. Call yourself Orthodox, and we assume you are in communion with Moscow, Constantinople or elsewhere.
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hummm
Dec 15, 2008 16:17:16 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Dec 15, 2008 16:17:16 GMT
Hibernicus, Are you Catholic? You sure do not sound like one? This is an appalling comment. I know Hibernicus very well, and even if I do differ with him on certain points, I would never question his Catholic orthodoxy. I would have problems with Gabriel's views, assessed from either a Catholic or Orthodox point of view.
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hummm
Dec 16, 2008 11:46:18 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Dec 16, 2008 11:46:18 GMT
I would have problems with Gabriel's views, assessed from either a Catholic or Orthodox point of view. Alaisdir6, Please do not leave me in the dark, explain your problem and I will help you through the grace of Christ and the Holy Spirit with prayer. My problem with you is that whatever your patterns of Sunday worship, your attitudes are not those of a Catholic or an Orthodox, but of a Gnostic heretic, so I suggest the first candidate for your prayers should be yourself.
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hummm
Dec 16, 2008 14:55:38 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Dec 16, 2008 14:55:38 GMT
Yes, I am a Catholic. By the way, I refer to our friend as Jibril for the following reason. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was revealed to him by the Archangel Gabriel; no Catholic or Christian would agree that this was the case, so I refer to our acquaintance here as Jibril (which I believe is tha Arabic form of the name) to imply that he is not what he professes to be.
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hummm
Dec 17, 2008 13:47:25 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Dec 17, 2008 13:47:25 GMT
What do you mean "also"? alaisdir's accusation of Gnosticism rests on the fact that Gnostics believed the material world was an illusion, a trap created by the imperfect God to whom you refer, and thought that the truly enlightened should aspire to free themselves from this trap and escape to a purely spiritual world. Your views imply that the natural world (including what you refer to as "secular logic" is irredeemably tainted and has nothing to do with God, and that true religious believers should have nothing to do with it and should resort only to supernatural means, as if they were pure spirits untainted by materiality.
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hummm
Dec 17, 2008 15:55:15 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Dec 17, 2008 15:55:15 GMT
Alaisdir6, Explain what statements I made which indicate that I am Gnostic heretic. I need to see your supporting evidence, not your unsupported opinion. Be specific please.. I'll be quite specific: your rejection of the material means of promoting the pro-life cause and your assertion of the unreasonableness of secular arguments conclude that you have the pessimistic view of creation and humanity which characterises Gnosticism. Knowledge is the key word. You frequently assert access to a higher knowledge than the rest of us lesser mortals have. When you to begin to express the Faith clearer and less obscurely than you do, I might be less inclined to brand you as a heretic.
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