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Post by hazelireland on Oct 31, 2008 12:57:59 GMT
I think I know, but I would still like to see it in words. If you know you know, I do not need to tell you. I do not want to push this important thread into a discussion of your fundamentalist literal reading of catholic doctrine. Nor your defence of same by the consistent tactic of fallacy and putting words in other peoples mouths. Nor your rather embarrassing “science” regarding the place of earth in the universe and its relation to the universe about it. Try and stick to the thread topic which is the banning of people from this forum and the abilities for cordial discourse of a civilised nature between the average catholic and the average atheist.
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Post by redmond on Oct 31, 2008 19:02:49 GMT
It was you who put this matter on this thread, not me hazelireland.
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Post by sceilg on Oct 31, 2008 21:24:57 GMT
Sceilg, I do not want to push this thread into one about homosexuality. It is off topic. That's a cop-out; the thread is about the right which atheists here have to argue about a certain topic(s). I am proposing a topic, although we can talk about abortion if you like. The burden of proof re. sexual deviance does not lie on the shoulders of the Catholic Church; it lies on the shoulders of those practicing it. Nature dictates that a man and a woman procreate so humanity can replace itself with new generations. We are set apart from animals, but even animals are aware of this feature of Natural Law. By contravening this law, you are bringing humanity to a level even lower than that of an animal. Homosexuals can never use the reproductive process for anything other than gratification, no matter how much "love" these relationship gurus claim is involved. So you will mock, but not debate?
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Post by hazelireland on Nov 1, 2008 10:45:48 GMT
It was you who put this matter on this thread, not me hazelireland. Referring to an example is not the same as changing the subject. If you wish to discuss yourself and the attitude of other people to you then start another thread on it. I will happily contribute.
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Post by hazelireland on Nov 1, 2008 10:48:20 GMT
Dear Harris, More than anything else I would like to know why atheists have an obsessive compulsive disorder about dialog with Catholics? And why do they incessantly beg us to prove that God exists? Is it because they want to believe in God? I think I already answered this in another thread but since the quesiton here is more direct I will give you the answer more directly. More often than not it has NOTHING to do with _wanting_ to believe or _wanting_ not to. The majority of atheists will be interested solely in finding out what is _true_ without such a bias. If your proposition IS true then the onus is on us to find that out. Therefore the onus is on the people proposing it to show why it is true. To date no one has.
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Post by hazelireland on Nov 1, 2008 10:53:16 GMT
Sceilg,
No there is no cop out.This thread IS about the rights of atheists to argue on certain topics. It is NOT about those topics. I will meet you on any topic you care to discuss. Start another thread about it and I will be there. Start one on abortion and one on homosexuality and youll find me there to talk to you on both. I can at length about the falsehoods in your paragraph about on homosexuals however I will not be drawn on this thread. If you are so keen for a discussion on a different subject then start that thread and I will see you there.
So yes I will mock AND I will debate. However I will have the common courtesy of realising there is a time and a place. Start your thread if you are so brave.
I think the subject of THIS thread is important however and I have no wish to see it descend into a completely tangental discussion. In fact I see your attempts to completely change the subject from what the thread is, to a subject about gays as the real cop out here. You do not want the topic discussed so you are trying desperately to change it. This is not big. This is not clever.
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Post by hazelireland on Nov 1, 2008 10:55:44 GMT
Harris, you said the moderator contacted you?
Can we expect a statement from him on the subject of this thread any time soon?
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Post by guillaume on Nov 1, 2008 13:18:16 GMT
Harris, you said the moderator contacted you? Can we expect a statement from him on the subject of this thread any time soon? I agree with that. 1) we need an official statement from the new moderator regarding this issue. 2) we need written rules, regarding this forum. Not rules from the designers of proboards. But rules regarding this very forum. Rules proper to this forum. God Bless.
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Post by redmond on Nov 1, 2008 15:12:15 GMT
while you are all waiting for the boss to explaim himself I hope he writes plain english and does not indulge in that intellectual gibberish that pours out of hazelireland's contributions. Here is her latest to me
'Referring to an example is not the same as changing the subject.'
What is that supposed to mean?
She went on
'If you wish to discuss yourself and the attitude of other people to you then start another thread on it. I will happily contribute.'
You mean you want me to start a thread entitled WHY DOES REDMOND EMBARRASS THE CATHOLIC FAITH. Are you for real hazelireland. Get down off that high horse would you. '
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Post by sceilg on Nov 1, 2008 17:46:44 GMT
Sceilg, No there is no cop out.This thread IS about the rights of atheists to argue on certain topics. It is NOT about those topics. I will meet you on any topic you care to discuss. Start another thread about it and I will be there. Start one on abortion and one on homosexuality and youll find me there to talk to you on both. I can at length about the falsehoods in your paragraph about on homosexuals however I will not be drawn on this thread. If you are so keen for a discussion on a different subject then start that thread and I will see you there. So yes I will mock AND I will debate. However I will have the common courtesy of realising there is a time and a place. Start your thread if you are so brave. I think the subject of THIS thread is important however and I have no wish to see it descend into a completely tangental discussion. In fact I see your attempts to completely change the subject from what the thread is, to a subject about gays as the real cop out here. You do not want the topic discussed so you are trying desperately to change it. This is not big. This is not clever. But how on earth can you debate about serious subjects when the person at the other end of the line is there with the intention to mock?
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Post by ezigboututu on Nov 1, 2008 18:36:42 GMT
No the reasoning behind that is that the a non-thinking Sasquatch who sits in front of re-runs of Coronation Street is probably already a Catholic. Believing something you were indoctrinated into as a child does not require any thinking. Please; I was raised on piecemeal Novus Ordo Catholicism without having any religious encouragement from my elders. I stopped believing completely in my teens, but have seen the wisdom of Catholic tradition in adulthood. This is nothing to do with being indoctrinated as a child. Your first argument falls flat immediately. It wasn't an argument it was a jibe. More importantly in your rush to reply you shifted a generalisation onto yourself to present it as a specific in a pathetic attempt to score a point. I did not make a statement about you specifically so your "argument" falls on it's face. What would I gain from this? You are here to tell me why I'm being naive. Heaven forbid that when I shack up in a forum full of people who believe in nothing that I might fall a victim to Asch's Theory of Conformity. You wouldn't be "shacking up" as you call it (bit of a sex obsession there?). On atheist.ie of course you'd be without the comfort blankey of a moderator who on two occasions now has needed to resort to the censorship of banning in order to cover up for the fragile unsustainable arguments in favor of Roman Catholicism. Having a couple of mentally disturbed evangelical Catholics on your side doesn't help either. As regards what atheists believe you're just repeating Vatican propaganda which is completely simplistic and designed to be swallowed by it's flock. They don't call you the flock for nothing you know. There was a very good thread in response to the usual "atheist's believe this or atheists believe that" with which you could enlighten yourself but..............the moderator deleted it. True, name calling doesn't help. But when you talk about illogical people, go no further than atheists. Agnostics at the very least acknowledge that they don't know if God exists or not. But atheists claim that they know beyond all reasonable doubt that there isn't a God. This is completely against logic when you consider the intricacies of Creation. That an atheist would argue that there is no God whatsoever is as illogical as saying that a jumper knitted itself. You're off again on the same self deluding fallacy of thinking that because someone does not believe a particular claim without evidence then everyone who agrees on that point agrees on everything else no matter what. It's a common mistake often made by people who live on a diet of religious propaganda. What's completely against logic is to cling onto simplistic little childhood anecdotes like " a jumper can't knit itself" and based on that imagine yourself a slave to an invisible man who is represented on Earth by a little German oul fella in silk stockings who finds having sex with anyone but himself abhorrent. God works in mysterious ways. God who? Do you have a location and an exact description? Is there any chance your god yoke might start actually talking for itself? Hold on till I call the newspapers before you introduce himself. One photo would be worth a fortune. See my argument re. a jumper knitter above; it is illogical to talk down people's faith in intelligent design behind Creation because your fraternity (Richard Dawkins et al) have not come up with a satisfactory alternative explanation (even by scientific standards) as to how the world was created. See above. If you don't why it rains and someone claims they do and tells you it's angels peeing then unless they can show you verifiable evidence it does not mean it's safe to believe that it is angels peeing. Thats especially true when they are telling you they have influence with the peeing angels and you should contribute your time and money to their organisation of peeing angel representatives on Earth. Of course when it rains they will tell you it's your fault because you did not pray enough and when the sun shines they will tell you it's because the angels answered your prayers with their help. Someone who tells you they don't know why it rains but they are investigating it using tried and tested scientific methods may not be telling you what you want to hear but they are probably telling you the truth. To respond to that I will ask you how traditional Catholicism and Islam - two of the world's most conservative religions - are growing so rapidly.. Wow how could that be? I don't suppose that for example the penalty for apostasy in Islam is death could have anything to do with it. Or could the perpetuation of Roman Catholicism have anything to do with the fact they fight tooth and claw to control the education of children so they can carry on their program of indoctrination? Or could it be that of the claimed one billion catholics most of them by the defined rules of the RCC are actually Protestants? You need to get the good news to your bishops since all they whine about it how they are being ignored and how the people they claim are Catholics are ignoring them. Obviously with plenty of justification; when atheistic governments sprung up over the world in the 20th Century, all they did was systematically persecute and kill Christians. Stalin was just another Pope with a little less PR and hypocrisy. All his methods and his modus operandi were well established by one Pope after another. And you're worried about killing Christians only. Don't mention the six million Jews but then the Popes spent much of their time persecuting them as well so better to leave them out. If you want to list people who murdered and tortured Christians don't forget all those who were the victims of successive Popes who through history killed more Christians than anybody. A widespread collapse in religious belief hasn't led to the Utopia you and John Lennon dreamed about, but the consumer/machine society, with all of its side effects - pornography, abortion, marital breakdown et cetera. The divinity of humanity denied, you return man to the status of being a mere animal. And if he is led to believe that he is a dumb animal, he will act like one. A widespread collapse in religious belief? Just above you were claiming Islam and Catholicism were growing like wildfire. Which is it or are you just making up knee jerk reactions as you go along. As regards the "divinity" of humanity can you tell us exactly what kind of human "divinity" drove the Popes to inflict one Inquisition after another on the people of Europe? What was the "divinity" thing doing when the Catholic clergy were covering up child rape and moving child rapist around so they could rape and torture over and over again. You don't suppose the clerics of the RCC are involved in reducing man to a child sex obsessed animal do you? Maybe you better stay over here because you'd be a laughing stock if you tried to debate anybody on atheist.ie. ( Quick read this before the Catholic censor gets here ;D)
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Post by guillaume on Nov 1, 2008 19:11:42 GMT
I do not know why atheists are so focused on this forum.
They are trying to propagate their devil propaganda.
But, for us, faithful, we could give a damn. Whatever they are saying or writing, or discussing, i could give a damn interest W H A T S O E V E R. They do not believe in God, fair enough. Get lost then in this particular forum.
It is difficult enough for us to practice our faith, than to have to listen or read those bullshits from atheists. Those people will, like us, finish in a wooden coffin and die. Then where there convictions will lead ?
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Post by faithful on Nov 1, 2008 19:30:32 GMT
Is this not spam?
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Post by faithful on Nov 1, 2008 19:32:54 GMT
I do not know why atheists are so focused on this forum. They are trying to propagate their devil propaganda. But, for us, faithful, we could give a damn. Whatever they are saying or writing, or discussing, i could give a damn interest W H A T S O E V E R. They do not believe in God, fair enough. Get lost then in this particular forum. It is difficult enough for us to practice our faith, than to have to listen or read those bullnutss from atheists. Those people will, like us, finish in a wooden coffin and die. Then where there convictions will lead ? Will the moderator make a statement? The forum has got out of hand.
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Post by guillaume on Nov 1, 2008 19:39:04 GMT
Well, let me rephrase this. I do not have an interest in this particular forum speaking or discussing with philosophical-devil-a la lumiere de Voltaire or the devilish Sartres. Atheists will die, their body will be consumed like ours, they will reach nothing, until they face Jesus in their particular judgement. Then they will think "shit....".... Good luck !
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