|
Post by hazelireland on Nov 6, 2008 8:42:11 GMT
Of course anyone who wants to be on a site where NO ONE is banned and ANYONE can talk about ANYTHING and you are not moderated by a dictator who will ban you because YOUR version of faith is hostile to HIS version of faith then you are welcome to go here: irishcatholic.proboards.com/
|
|
|
Post by Inedifix II on Nov 6, 2008 9:34:49 GMT
Hi Saint Stephen, It looks like all the other boys and girls have found a new place to play that they haven't told you about. I think it's just you and us evil, godless heathens knocking about in here now. Isn't that a telling irony? Love your new little one-man online kingdom, by the way. It must be so much fun being both the king and your own subject. Hot tip: try a competition or a free giveaway to lure new members in. Some poor unsuspecting Catholic is sure to stumble by before long. I P.S. Still waiting for your response to my " evidence".
|
|
|
Post by hazelireland on Nov 6, 2008 13:39:29 GMT
What makes the Catholic/atheist so radically opposed to each other?
Id say your answer should be more that the catholic has decided what is true with no evidence and then fits the world into that "truth" and demands that everyone else conform to it. They cant show (and on this site often don’t even bother to try) any evidence for their suppositions yet they claim that everything they say is right and that, not only do they know there is a god but they know what it wants us to do, what it wants us to eat, who it wants us to have commune with and how.
Their beliefs therefore are not open to discussion or reason or to being changed.
Those without beliefs in things with no evidence however work from the ground up and build their belief system from fundamentals. They ask you to believe nothing on insufficient evidence. When they propose a way of life or a law their arguments are amenable to reason and discourse and are changeable and are then choosable based on rational democratic discourse and voting.
Above all the atheist wants evidence and human civil discourse. Faith is however a conversation stopper, it is the claim that "This is the way it is, I cant show you why, it just is and that’s that!". It is the death to discourse and communication.
That is where the opposition comes from. Not some fantasy difference in infinite and finite world views.
However the phrase "both precepts contradict one another perpetually" does not have to be so. Even if there is a god or not both the atheist and the theist live in the real world.
Therefore using Democracy and Secularism we can co-exist and communicate just fine. All you have to do is like Obama says. Translate your religiously motivated agendas and desires into real world concerns and we can have discourse on them. There would be and could be no problem with theistic concerns therefore.
We never ask you to conform to us based on any reason that has no evidence. Is it therefore wrong of us to ask for the same courtesy from you?
|
|
|
Post by guillaume on Nov 6, 2008 17:05:05 GMT
This is becoming a bit ridiculous. 2 members of this forum are promoting their own forum (via pro-boards).
|
|
|
Post by Inedifix II on Nov 6, 2008 20:21:31 GMT
This is becoming a bit ridiculous. 2 members of this forum are promoting their own forum (via pro-boards). Ridiculous in the extreme, I agree. Though I think you'll find that the second one, HazelIreland's, is just a parody to show how easy it is for anyone to do what Saint Stephen is doing. I
|
|
|
Post by Inedifix II on Nov 6, 2008 20:22:20 GMT
No one wants to be deleted from this forum that is why no one is posting to you. Ah, the King of Non-Sequiturs strikes again. No one has been, or is likely to be banned simply for talking to me. Please stop making things up! The moderator has apologized unreservedly for banning me. Didn't you see that? Just in case you missed it, here it is again: Hi Inedifix, I am writing to you to apologise for the actions I took last week in deleting both you and Hemingway from the Irish Catholics Forum. I regret doing it and I realise that it was foolish, unethical, unfair and wrong of me to do so. The reason I did it was because I felt that the atheistic talk was partly dominating the Irish Catholics Forum. I hope you accept my apology. In Nomine Christi, CPMThe website my friend built does not need any members... membership is not what I would hope for Then why are you so blatantly advertising for members? And what do you mean by "your friend?" Not Royal O'Siodhachain, I presume. You are Royal O'Siodhachain. Royal O'Siodhachain and Saint Stephen are the same person. I hope you're not actually trying to pretend to us that they are separate people? But anyway, it looks like you're not getting any members, so you should be happy. Although I imagine the guest contributions you've had so far (posted below) are not encouraging you very much: What does it feel like SaintStephen/Royal , to consider yourself a Christian, but have so many people think of you as an unpleasant, inflammatory bigot? I am aware you already have one Catholic posting on your atheist website which should be enough. The more the merrier. No one gets banned from Atheist.ie for their beliefs. You are welcome there anytime. Myself and a few more are willing to dialog with atheists although it is not the primary reason for being on this site. You have not engaged in dialogue with any atheists. You have tried extremely hard to goad and bait them into aggressiveness so that the mod would have to ban them. But you have mostly failed. Invariably what happens in Catholic/atheist dialog is that the contradictions of belief become apparent no matter how courteous one tries to be. Those contradictions lead directly to separation infinitely and terminally, there is no way to avoid that fact. That's simply not true. I have debated online with Catholics without that occurring on many occasions. And I've been delightfully happily married to a Catholic for 20 years. Catholics view the world from an infinite point of view whereas the atheists view the world from a finite point of view and so the intent of each is opposed to each other perpetually. Please stop telling people what they do and don't think. As usual, you're wrong! I find it impossible to conceive of existence as finite. I have an infinite view of existence. I
|
|
|
Post by hazelireland on Nov 7, 2008 9:57:27 GMT
Dear Hazelireland, I will choose my own answers. Catholics and atheists are radically opposed to each other in the definition of life as we know it. Atheists believe in a finite world while Catholics believe in an infinite world. You have enough trouble telling people what you believe. Maybe you would do well to stop telling us what we believe?
|
|
|
Post by Inedifix II on Nov 9, 2008 22:48:18 GMT
Dear Saint Stephen,
I wonder, when you next go to confession, Will you admit to lying to your fellow Catholics? And will you comply, if you are told to desist from these lies? Or will you return and carry on lying to your fellow Catholics? Or will you convince yourself that it's okay to lie about atheists? And thereby avoid having to confess in the first place, about the lies you are telling to your fellow Catholics?
I
|
|
|
Post by hazelireland on Nov 10, 2008 11:13:31 GMT
Dear Hazelireland, I believe in Christ and forgiveness of sin. You would benefit immensely to believe in Him also, Christ could heal much of your bitterness. Which is why I have asked you several times for your evidence for this. If it is indeed true then it would be great to know that. Of course you have not given any evidence for it.... on any thread.... and the only evidence you have provided us with is that you are a master of deception, of lies and of nonsequitars. Actually no, the last one is the only one you are a master of. The other two you are very bad at and have been caught out more times than I can count now.
|
|
|
Post by Hemingway on Nov 10, 2008 16:33:34 GMT
The early contributions to your site Stephen wouldnt fill me with a lot of encouragement. Good luck with it!
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Nov 11, 2008 19:00:22 GMT
Hazel says Catholics believe with no evidence. Surely what she is saying is that we believe with insufficient evidence. Various philosophical arguments have been put forward in support of the existence of a God; you may believe they have been disproved but that does not mean they never existed or nothing could be said in their favour. If materialism is self-evident (you seem to be a materialist thoguh you have not made this clear) why has anyone ever thoguht differently? By the way I think I have worked out the difference behind some of our recent exchanges. You are operating on a Baconian model whereby the scientist starts out by gathering evidence and develops a theory from it. I operate on the Popperian model whereby you begin with a theory and test it by inviting arguments for and against it. Thus when I make a statment you dismiss it as mere assertion without evidence,but what I am really doing is asking you to explain why you think the statement isn't true?
|
|
|
Post by hibernicus on Nov 11, 2008 19:03:43 GMT
By the way, if Saintstephen wishes to set up his own forum he is entitled to set his own rules. I don't imagine though that the parish priests of participants will be pleased to get e-mails inviting them to confirm who is or isn't a member of their parish. For one thing, I suspect data protection regulations make it difficult to give out tht sort of information; for another, how many people know their PP's e-mail address, or given the size of many Catholic parishes and the fact that priests are transferred regularly, know their PP personally? (MY PP, who I did know personally, has just retired through ill-health and I don't know who his successor is yet.)
|
|
|
Post by hazelireland on Nov 11, 2008 21:08:17 GMT
Hazel says Catholics believe with no evidence. Surely what she is saying is that we believe with insufficient evidence. Various philosophical arguments have been put forward in support of the existence of a God No, I really do mean no evidence. Or at least I have yet to be shown any. You are sounding a little like SaintStephen when you talk about evidence and arguments that are there and then not actually presenting them. Its like going to a bank, asking for a loan, and when asked for security on the loan saying "Oh I have loads of that.... im just not going to show you any... but I have it honest!" I have been presented with no argument that has not been disproved. Now you can go on saying that this does not mean they never existed but what use is that? You can make up ANY crap you like.... about any topic you like.... have it disproved.... and then go around saying "Oh at least there _was_ an argument at one time!!!". What use is this to anyone? There _was_ arguments for alien abductions, the continues existance of elvis, and the thunder god Thor. Saying there _was_ an argument over it gives us nothing. Its white noise. I ask you to show me evidence for a god and all you give me is something that is not considered evidence any more. In fact you did not even give me that. You just alluded to such a thing without saying what it is. Thus when I make a statment you dismiss it as mere assertion without evidence,but what I am really doing is asking you to explain why you think the statement isn't true? True. I will dismiss the arguments you make if there is no evidence for them. I have no choice. Do you have any concept of just how many people there are making assertions about 1000s of different subjects. From gods, to aliens, to magic, to witch craft, to intelligent design, to population seeding, to astrology, to alchemy, to telepathy, to telekenisis, to homeopathy..... They are just the ones I feel bothered to type, theres 1000s more, and I have not even touched on the conspiracy theories yet. Or myths from werewolves to ghosts and to dragons. And lets not even go NEAR scientology. So no, I would be wasting my ENTIRE life if I had to disprove every idea that pops into every head about every subject. Things do not aquire credibility merely because people can think them up. I have no choice, both for my sanity and for the time I can spend on it, but to completely dismiss any proposition that comes to me devoid of any evidence for it whatsoever. IF evidence is presented we can consider it and spend time on that and discuss it. If none is presented AT ALL then sorry, your proposition must be shelved until such time as it is. We may discuss it if time arises to tickle our fancy, but thats it. We CERTAINLY cant start building second level premises on it like the theist does by saying that not only is the proposition correct but we can also tell you what that god wants, when it wants it and how you should perform said things.
|
|
|
Post by Mc naMara on Feb 13, 2009 21:55:01 GMT
What a disappointment... I sought out this forum and others like it in and the hope of finding some inspiration and support but have found childlike and quite honestly, an un Christian attitude to each other so i suspect there is little in the way encouragement here. I am RC whom has lapsed somewhat, and having two young daughters who are expressing more and more interest in their faith and we have started attending mass again on a regular basis. I have always struggled with the whole faith, particularly as the son of Irish parents residing in the UK, and having read accounts of the church in Ireland appalling track record in respect of abuse, the holocaust, the Magdelenes laundrys... you get the point - so i decided to try to move beyond that and seek out the positive aspects of our faith - and i find this? You are all clearly dedicated and intelligent people but why the dismissive and hostile language? why is it so important to always right, and at the expense of one another. Maybe its not faith I've been missing, perhaps its just humanity and good will - I'm convinced its not to be found here. What a pity - you may want to consider the words of the book you each purport to live your lives by.
Be kind
Marc
|
|
|
Post by Michael O'Donovan on Feb 14, 2009 18:45:12 GMT
What a disappointment... I sought out this forum and others like it in and the hope of finding some inspiration and support but have found childlike and quite honestly, an un Christian attitude to each other so i suspect there is little in the way encouragement here. I am RC whom has lapsed somewhat, and having two young daughters who are expressing more and more interest in their faith and we have started attending mass again on a regular basis. I have always struggled with the whole faith, particularly as the son of Irish parents residing in the UK, and having read accounts of the church in Ireland appalling track record in respect of abuse, the holocaust, the Magdelenes laundrys... you get the point - so i decided to try to move beyond that and seek out the positive aspects of our faith - and i find this? You are all clearly dedicated and intelligent people but why the dismissive and hostile language? why is it so important to always right, and at the expense of one another. Maybe its not faith I've been missing, perhaps its just humanity and good will - I'm convinced its not to be found here. What a pity - you may want to consider the words of the book you each purport to live your lives by. Be kind Marc Marc I'm glad you have looked in here. But I hope you are not judging the whole board by this thread. We went through a rough patch a few months ago with some members (not only atheists but Catholics as well) lowered the quality of discussion considerably. They have all gone; some willingly, and others because we excluded them. I think if you focus on the posts of the last three months or so you will find that they are of a generally high quality and that people (including the atheist members) debate with each other in a thoughtful and courteous way. This started out as a forum intended mainly for Catholics attached to the Traditional Latin Mass but it was never meant to be only for them. You reflect a point of view that is under-represented. I think you could add a lot. Please consider posting again. Best wishes Michael G
|
|