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Post by kieron on Jul 24, 2008 10:36:55 GMT
In my parish - Marley Grange in Dublin, run by the Servites - the church building has just been renovated at great cost. All the kneelers were removed. The former parish priest told us that kneeling was a posture for private prayer. Ever since then, almost everyone stands for the canon and the consecration. When Spain was playing during the European Cup, the new parish priest said the last hymn would be Ole Ole Ole Ole. The people clap at the end of the Mass, then chat to one another. Recently, when the priest was greeting parishioners after the Mass, I thanked him for allowing me to do some of my purgatory on earth. He didn't understand!
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Post by guillaume on Jul 24, 2008 10:51:40 GMT
In my parish - Marley Grange in Dublin, run by the Servites - the church building has just been renovated at great cost. All the kneelers were removed. The former parish priest told us that kneeling was a posture for private prayer. Ever since then, almost everyone stands for the canon and the consecration. When Spain was playing during the European Cup, the new parish priest said the last hymn would be Ole Ole Ole Ole. The people clap at the end of the Mass, then chat to one another. Recently, when the priest was greeting parishioners after the Mass, I thanked him for allowing me to do some of my purgatory on earth. He didn't understand! I know what you mean. The lack of respect within the NOM (Novus Ordo Missae) is becoming really intolerable. I decided, i am afraid, not to attend NOM Mass anymore. I gave it for far too long too much attention and hope. While ALL the NOM mass are not to reject, there are too little in quality and respect to give it a go. I have seen what you describe 100 times. People who come in their Jersey shirt, because of a match occurring after mass. People leaving the mass straight away, after the Ite Missa Est. Or arriving 2 minutes before it starts. No keeling, very little signs of the cross, etc, etc, etc...... This is not catholic. However, your reaction is great. Because it proves that you care and feel concern about what's going on with the liturgy. Go and read this article from our blog : catholic-perspective.blogspot.com/2008/07/on-theology-of-kneeling.html
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Jul 24, 2008 21:02:55 GMT
In my parish - Marley Grange in Dublin, run by the Servites - the church building has just been renovated at great cost. All the kneelers were removed. The former parish priest told us that kneeling was a posture for private prayer. Ever since then, almost everyone stands for the canon and the consecration. When Spain was playing during the European Cup, the new parish priest said the last hymn would be Ole Ole Ole Ole. The people clap at the end of the Mass, then chat to one another. Kieron, that is a hopeless case. The Spectre of Vatican II has taken control and there is no known cure. But please God the Spectre will die with its followers and in the meantime you and your family can go to a church where the Mass is celebrated properly. Is it a sin to do what I did on Sunday at 7 p.m. in Whitefriar Street, and take pleasure in kneeling and receiving Holy Communion on the tongue?
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Post by braveheart on Aug 4, 2008 15:32:32 GMT
In my Parish we have two Churches, one run by the Parish and one run by the Carmelites. Both of them have the usual abuses with women running the show. Altar girls, lay readers, lay ministers of everything, words stuck in or left out by the Priest, choirs that want to be able to sing like Liam Lawton.
Some of the Priests in the Friary are reverent but they still have all of the abuses. They just manage to say a more reverent Mass. The Parish Church is hopeless. They only wear the chasuble on Sundays. Sermons are drivel about how important it is to be nice and how nice it is to be turning up to contribute to the collection. The population here has boomed in the last 10 years, up from 4k to about 16k but the attendance has gone down and down even with two fewer Masses. When the Poles go home its going to be real fun!
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Post by santiago on Aug 4, 2008 17:04:13 GMT
"They only wear the chasuble on Sundays" God help us all!
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Post by guillaume on Aug 4, 2008 23:10:46 GMT
In my Parish we have two Churches, one run by the Parish and one run by the Carmelites. Both of them have the usual abuses with women running the show. Altar girls, lay readers, lay ministers of everything, words stuck in or left out by the Priest, choirs that want to be able to sing like Liam Lawton. Some of the Priests in the Friary are reverent but they still have all of the abuses. They just manage to say a more reverent Mass. The Parish Church is hopeless. They only wear the chasuble on Sundays. Sermons are drivel about how important it is to be nice and how nice it is to be turning up to contribute to the collection. The population here has boomed in the last 10 years, up from 4k to about 16k but the attendance has gone down and down even with two fewer Masses. When the Poles go home its going to be real fun! Last sunday mass, the lay man had mixed up the readings, and read the wrong first reading and the wrong letter of saint Paul..... ;D The priest, at least, read the right Gospel........
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Post by braveheart on Aug 7, 2008 22:40:42 GMT
I think they call it spontaniety in the liturgy. At least that's what Abp Marini calls it.
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molly
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by molly on Oct 21, 2008 17:18:25 GMT
Hi I'm new, cool forum. From browsing this forum for the last few days I gather that a large membership consists of Latin Mass people and as a lot of topics descend into very complicated theological discussions most members seem well up on their liturgy/theology/philosophy of the Church. I am a fan of simplicity and clarity and so my contribution will testify to that (not to mention my disgraceful ignorance of my faith!). I was born after the decline of the latin mass and so only ever experienced the vernacular, ordinary mass. My Dad is a big fan of the Latin Mass and although I've been twice to the one in St. Kevin's (I think?) I don't see that it is a more "legitimate" form of mass. While the congregation was possibly more reverential than those you would find perhaps in any ordinary parish church and the singing was very beautiful, the mass itself contains the same things just in a different language. The main problem in regular masses is with peoples' attitude to mass and their behaviour while there. But I don't understand why people blame Vatican II for this development...is it not simply just a result of the way society was going? In the ordinary vernacular mass I like hearing the babies bawling and the sulky adolescents nervously fiddling with their clothes/hair/mass leaflets...at least they are there. I would advocate a more solemn atmosphere in the Church and definitely an examination of whether miniskirts are appropriate and liturgical mime really necessary.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Oct 21, 2008 18:03:48 GMT
Hi I'm new, cool forum. From browsing this forum for the last few days I gather that a large membership consists of Latin Mass people and as a lot of topics descend into very complicated theological discussions most members seem well up on their liturgy/theology/philosophy of the Church. I am a fan of simplicity and clarity and so my contribution will testify to that (not to mention my disgraceful ignorance of my faith!). I was born after the decline of the latin mass and so only ever experienced the vernacular, ordinary mass. My Dad is a big fan of the Latin Mass and although I've been twice to the one in St. Kevin's (I think?) I don't see that it is a more "legitimate" form of mass. While the congregation was possibly more reverential than those you would find perhaps in any ordinary parish church and the singing was very beautiful, the mass itself contains the same things just in a different language. The main problem in regular masses is with peoples' attitude to mass and their behaviour while there. But I don't understand why people blame Vatican II for this development...is it not simply just a result of the way society was going? In the ordinary vernacular mass I like hearing the babies bawling and the sulky adolescents nervously fiddling with their clothes/hair/mass leaflets...at least they are there. I would advocate a more solemn atmosphere in the Church and definitely an examination of whether miniskirts are appropriate and liturgical mime really necessary. You are very welcome, Molly. I'm the one who started this forum and my hope was that while it would give a voice to Traditional Catholics, it would also attract others. As you will have noticed we have some lively atheist members but very few people like you. I agree with most of what you say. The Latin Mass, or the Extraordinary Form as the Pope has called it, is not in itself a more legitimate form of Mass (though I and many others have a preference for it). The reason I am reluctant to go to Mass in the Ordinary Form (the modern rite) is that in most cases it seems more like people celebrating themselves than something focused on God and centred on the re-enactment of the Passion, Death and Resurrection of Christ. I don't believe that the Second Vatican Council ever intended that. However, there are those who took it on themselves to decide that the conclusions of Vatican II were a kind of political compromise, but that they concealed a "spirit" of Vatican II (understood by special people like themselves, of course) which justified all kinds of innovations (like liturgical dance and priest making up the litury as they go along). Certainly the Ordinary Form can be celebrated reverently and beautifully. I have seen it done quite a few times. The Pope shows every day how it can be done. Unfortunately it is very rare here in Ireland (less so in other countries). Please keep posting, and if you could let other people know about the forum please do.
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