Post by maolsheachlann on Aug 17, 2017 21:38:58 GMT
Well, the Alt Right have been heavily in the news recently, with the incidents in Charlottesville, and I thought it might be opportune to have a thread about them. I've been paying them a lot of attention in the last six months or so, for reasons I'll try to explain.
I actually became aware of the Alt Right on this forum, when Ranger posted the Dark Enlightenment thread. I was flippant about them at that point, and indeed I haven't really explored the Dark Enlightenment (which is something different to the Alt Right) at all. As far as I can tell, this is mostly composed of people who look back towards aristocracy and a kind of feudalism, and tends to be quite highbrow.
The problem with talking about the Alt Right is that (in my view) it's really a shorthand for a lot of different things. As has often been said, it's mostly an online phenomenon and its spokespeople are mostly vloggers on Youtube. This is why it's so easy to explore-- I listen to hours and hours and hours of content on Youtube, very often while I'm working. For someone like me who loves ideas, vloggers are addictive.
A lot of what gets called Alt Right are actually cultural libertarians such as Milo Yiannapoulous (who I admire greatly) or Stefan Molyneux or Roaming Millennial (a young mixed-race Chinese-American woman), or our own Dave Cullen of the Computing Forever channel. In stark contrast to the Alt Right, these are usually ardent opponents of identity politics. However, they are also enemies of political correctness, willing to talk frankly about Islam, race, transgenderism and other controversial topics, usually from a right-wing perspective. They tend to be classical liberals, but they also tend towards socially conservative views-- anti-abortion, anti-divorce, anti-feminism, and pro-religion. This movement seems bigger than the Alt Right, by orders of magnitude, but less dynamic. The Alt Right seems to be the tail that wags the cultural libertarian dog, to a great extent. There is some overlap between these groups, as cultural libertarians often have Alt Right vlggers on their channels for debate or discussion.
The Alt Right itself is composed of various different strands. What I've learned of it mostly comes from a Scottish vlogger called Millennial Woes who I think is extremely deep and profound (though I STRONGLY disagree with him on many issues). I've watched nearly all his videos, many of them multiple times. He is anti-abortion, pro-Christianity (but not a believer, though he'd like to be), and critical of libertarianism which (along with many other currents of modern thought) he accuses of "nihilism". His videos are not only about politics, but culture and sociology and all kinds of things. He's extremely honest, articulate, and thoughtful-- about as far from the caricature of a white nationalist as you could imagine. And yet he IS a white nationalist (though he tends to just use the term "nationalist").
I've watched some other Alt Right vloggers, such as Richard Spencer (the man who coined the term, and who's an excellent speaker) and Jared Taylor, who is also very articulate. Both these figures are sinister as well as articulate.
I want to emphasise here that I'm not endorsing the Alt Right, but I am going to try to present their views as far as I can make them out:
1) They believe white people are under threat of extinction, or of becoming minorities in traditionally white societies, and that this is something to be feared. Indeed, they quite honestly point to the common acceptance that minorities are badly treated to justify their alarm over this.
2) They believe that there are significant differences between the races other than skin colour-- for instance, IQ. They argue, for instance, that African societies are significantly less successful than European societies, despite having been independent for some time now. The history of post-apartheid South Africa is another example they appeal to.
3) They argue that there is widespread hypocrisy when it comes to the question of white identity-- that blacks, Hispanics, Latinos, Asians, Jews, etc. are all allowed to express pride in their race, and to act in their own interests in politics, and to dominate in their own "homelands", but that this is denied whites. The argument is frequently made that multiculturalism is only advocated for white societies, not for any other. (Incidentally, I would have considered Latinos and Hispanics and Jews white, but apparently they don't.)
4) They argue that diversity is a weakness, not a strength-- for instance, that more racially diverse neighbourhoods in America tend to have higher crime rates, while more ethnically homogenous areas have a higher level of trust and solidarity.
5) They argue that people tend to self-segregate according to racial lines where they have the opportunity-- for instance, in America, virtually all churches are black churches or white churches-- and that it takes constant intrusive social engineering to rectify this. A lot of their argument seems based on the theory that people naturally feel more at home with their own race, and this is important for human flourishing.
6) They tend to dismiss the arguments over the definition of race as pedantry-- claiming that pretty much everybody knows what race any given person belongs to on sight, and behaves accordingly.
7) They are generally anti-semitic. They constantly complain that Jewish people support a Jewish ethno-state in Israel but support internationalism and multiculturalism for every other country.
8) They are anti-feminist. There are quite a lot of very attractive young female Alt Right vloggers, who explicitly praise patriarchy, and who believe feminism and careerism has made women miserable. There arguments against feminism and gender theory are not so different from those of Catholics.
9) Abortion is an issue which seems to divide them. Millennial Woes is entirely anti-abortion, but other Alt Right people seem to favour it for non-white races. (Yes, this is disgusting, but I'm trying to describe their views as dispassionately as possible.)
10) They tend to be pro-Christianity and to consider themselves cultural Christians. I think a lot of this has to do with, not only a reaction against Islam, but also a reaction against libertarianism and New Atheism (which often go together). Many people in the Alt Right were formerly libertarians, but have come to reject the view that freedom and individualism are all-important-- they've come to value intangibles such as tradition, heritage, social solidarity, etc. There seems to be a parallel realization that scientism is limited-- perhaps true, but unsatisfying.
11) They tend to believe that Western societies are going to collapse in civil war, or race war, or some kind of apocalyptic crisis-- they are actively preparing for this, with some vloggers urging viewers to gain expertise in areas such as water purification, that may be useful when the crisis occurs, and to become physically fit in preparation for civil combat.
12) They are anti-egalitarian, anti-democracy, and pro-hierarchy.
13) They are sexually more conservative than classical liberals or libertarians-- monogamy is prized and sleeping around is discouraged. Homosexuality is tolerated but not celebrated. Making white babies is emphasized, of course.
One thing which fascinates me about the Alt Right is their terminology and culture. They have a cartoon frog which is called Pepé and which is used in various memes. They also have a mock-god called Kek, who is based on an Egyptian deity, and whose origin story is incredibly complicated. They use the verb "redpilled" to mean "englightened"-- that is, somebody is "redpilled" if they have rejected mainstream views and become Alt Right. Of course, this is from The Matrix, and it is seen as a painful and difficult process. They're big on pills-- they use the term "black pill" to indicate depression and depressing ideas, and "white pill" (more rarely) for comforting ideas. "Cuckservative" means a conservative who has sold out to liberalism. They are very big on refusing any concession to the left, or to PC-- "don't punch right", "don't disavow", "don't cuck out" are popular slogans.
It should go without saying that, as a Catholic, I strongly reject the Alt Right philosophy-- their anti-semitism is something I find especially upsetting. And yet, I'm interested in them for three reasons:
1) Culturally and sociologically-- as a phenomenon.
2) Because of their critique of modern society. Like Marxism, the Alt Right is often profound and probing in its critique of liberalism, conservatism, and society in general. I share their opposition to globalism, atomism, libertarianism, and many facets of modern society. And it's not just that they oppose many aspects of modern society, but that they are so original and perceptive in their criticism.
3) The Alt Right (like cultural libertarians) are fearless in their critique of political correctness, and this is in very stark contrast to mainstream conservatism-- and, it must be said, to Catholic and Christian commentators. I really feel that most Catholic commentators-- I mean even really good commentators such as Bishop Robert Barron-- are willing to speak the language and inhabit the mental world of poltiical correctness, if only they can dissent from it on a few particulars, such as abortion or homosexuality. The Alt Right (and cultural libertarians like Milo Yiannapolous) just say it like they see it, and it's difficult to listen to the blandness of some Father Perma-Smile or other, after breathing that fresh air.
As for how serious we should take political correcntess-- well, if we can still ask that after the two synods on the family, then we are just not paying attention. I do think there are lessons to be learned from the Alt Right. Maybe we need a Catholic equivalent?
What has the Alt Right critique of globalism got to do with Catholics? Well, I would suggest that the Catholic Church is making a big mistake in committing itself to an ideal of internationalism and supranationalism which few people have ever wanted, or will ever want, and which seems in contradiction to the ideal of subsidiarity. The global elites who run supranational institutions and multinational corporations also seem wedded to a very anti-Catholic social philosophy-- hwww.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/08/15/former-eu-president-criticises-pope-francis-over-euthanasia-ban/.
More than anything else, I think the difference between mainstream conservatism (and Christianity) and the Alt Right (and cultural liberetarians like Milo) lies in their respective atttitudes to the left, or to political correctness. As Ranger noted in his original post, the Alt Right posit a liberal-globalist-feminist hegemony called The Cathedral, which they believe has near-absolute control over the media, politics, education, and so forth. This is not an organization like the Freemason's, it's simply a ruling elite or a pervading philosophy. They have no illusions about this elite, or about the left in general, seeing it as totalitarian and absolutist in its demands. In some ways, especially after Charlottesville, it seems we are seeing something similar to the street battles between communists and Nazis in Weimar Germany-- two factions who are invincible enemies, both of whom are dedicated to the overthrow of the other, an entirely all-or-nothing conflict.
Scary as that is, I think the Alt Right (and the cultural libertarians) are actually more perceptive in their view of the left (or political correctness) than many Catholics-- who persist in the insane, suicidal, delusional policy of "dialogue". I think this is simply failing to read the signs of the times. I haven't read The Benedict Option, but Rod Dreher seems much more awake (red-pilled?) to the actual gravity of our situation, from what I hear. I think the Alt Right are quite correct in their diagnosis of leftism.
I actually became aware of the Alt Right on this forum, when Ranger posted the Dark Enlightenment thread. I was flippant about them at that point, and indeed I haven't really explored the Dark Enlightenment (which is something different to the Alt Right) at all. As far as I can tell, this is mostly composed of people who look back towards aristocracy and a kind of feudalism, and tends to be quite highbrow.
The problem with talking about the Alt Right is that (in my view) it's really a shorthand for a lot of different things. As has often been said, it's mostly an online phenomenon and its spokespeople are mostly vloggers on Youtube. This is why it's so easy to explore-- I listen to hours and hours and hours of content on Youtube, very often while I'm working. For someone like me who loves ideas, vloggers are addictive.
A lot of what gets called Alt Right are actually cultural libertarians such as Milo Yiannapoulous (who I admire greatly) or Stefan Molyneux or Roaming Millennial (a young mixed-race Chinese-American woman), or our own Dave Cullen of the Computing Forever channel. In stark contrast to the Alt Right, these are usually ardent opponents of identity politics. However, they are also enemies of political correctness, willing to talk frankly about Islam, race, transgenderism and other controversial topics, usually from a right-wing perspective. They tend to be classical liberals, but they also tend towards socially conservative views-- anti-abortion, anti-divorce, anti-feminism, and pro-religion. This movement seems bigger than the Alt Right, by orders of magnitude, but less dynamic. The Alt Right seems to be the tail that wags the cultural libertarian dog, to a great extent. There is some overlap between these groups, as cultural libertarians often have Alt Right vlggers on their channels for debate or discussion.
The Alt Right itself is composed of various different strands. What I've learned of it mostly comes from a Scottish vlogger called Millennial Woes who I think is extremely deep and profound (though I STRONGLY disagree with him on many issues). I've watched nearly all his videos, many of them multiple times. He is anti-abortion, pro-Christianity (but not a believer, though he'd like to be), and critical of libertarianism which (along with many other currents of modern thought) he accuses of "nihilism". His videos are not only about politics, but culture and sociology and all kinds of things. He's extremely honest, articulate, and thoughtful-- about as far from the caricature of a white nationalist as you could imagine. And yet he IS a white nationalist (though he tends to just use the term "nationalist").
I've watched some other Alt Right vloggers, such as Richard Spencer (the man who coined the term, and who's an excellent speaker) and Jared Taylor, who is also very articulate. Both these figures are sinister as well as articulate.
I want to emphasise here that I'm not endorsing the Alt Right, but I am going to try to present their views as far as I can make them out:
1) They believe white people are under threat of extinction, or of becoming minorities in traditionally white societies, and that this is something to be feared. Indeed, they quite honestly point to the common acceptance that minorities are badly treated to justify their alarm over this.
2) They believe that there are significant differences between the races other than skin colour-- for instance, IQ. They argue, for instance, that African societies are significantly less successful than European societies, despite having been independent for some time now. The history of post-apartheid South Africa is another example they appeal to.
3) They argue that there is widespread hypocrisy when it comes to the question of white identity-- that blacks, Hispanics, Latinos, Asians, Jews, etc. are all allowed to express pride in their race, and to act in their own interests in politics, and to dominate in their own "homelands", but that this is denied whites. The argument is frequently made that multiculturalism is only advocated for white societies, not for any other. (Incidentally, I would have considered Latinos and Hispanics and Jews white, but apparently they don't.)
4) They argue that diversity is a weakness, not a strength-- for instance, that more racially diverse neighbourhoods in America tend to have higher crime rates, while more ethnically homogenous areas have a higher level of trust and solidarity.
5) They argue that people tend to self-segregate according to racial lines where they have the opportunity-- for instance, in America, virtually all churches are black churches or white churches-- and that it takes constant intrusive social engineering to rectify this. A lot of their argument seems based on the theory that people naturally feel more at home with their own race, and this is important for human flourishing.
6) They tend to dismiss the arguments over the definition of race as pedantry-- claiming that pretty much everybody knows what race any given person belongs to on sight, and behaves accordingly.
7) They are generally anti-semitic. They constantly complain that Jewish people support a Jewish ethno-state in Israel but support internationalism and multiculturalism for every other country.
8) They are anti-feminist. There are quite a lot of very attractive young female Alt Right vloggers, who explicitly praise patriarchy, and who believe feminism and careerism has made women miserable. There arguments against feminism and gender theory are not so different from those of Catholics.
9) Abortion is an issue which seems to divide them. Millennial Woes is entirely anti-abortion, but other Alt Right people seem to favour it for non-white races. (Yes, this is disgusting, but I'm trying to describe their views as dispassionately as possible.)
10) They tend to be pro-Christianity and to consider themselves cultural Christians. I think a lot of this has to do with, not only a reaction against Islam, but also a reaction against libertarianism and New Atheism (which often go together). Many people in the Alt Right were formerly libertarians, but have come to reject the view that freedom and individualism are all-important-- they've come to value intangibles such as tradition, heritage, social solidarity, etc. There seems to be a parallel realization that scientism is limited-- perhaps true, but unsatisfying.
11) They tend to believe that Western societies are going to collapse in civil war, or race war, or some kind of apocalyptic crisis-- they are actively preparing for this, with some vloggers urging viewers to gain expertise in areas such as water purification, that may be useful when the crisis occurs, and to become physically fit in preparation for civil combat.
12) They are anti-egalitarian, anti-democracy, and pro-hierarchy.
13) They are sexually more conservative than classical liberals or libertarians-- monogamy is prized and sleeping around is discouraged. Homosexuality is tolerated but not celebrated. Making white babies is emphasized, of course.
One thing which fascinates me about the Alt Right is their terminology and culture. They have a cartoon frog which is called Pepé and which is used in various memes. They also have a mock-god called Kek, who is based on an Egyptian deity, and whose origin story is incredibly complicated. They use the verb "redpilled" to mean "englightened"-- that is, somebody is "redpilled" if they have rejected mainstream views and become Alt Right. Of course, this is from The Matrix, and it is seen as a painful and difficult process. They're big on pills-- they use the term "black pill" to indicate depression and depressing ideas, and "white pill" (more rarely) for comforting ideas. "Cuckservative" means a conservative who has sold out to liberalism. They are very big on refusing any concession to the left, or to PC-- "don't punch right", "don't disavow", "don't cuck out" are popular slogans.
It should go without saying that, as a Catholic, I strongly reject the Alt Right philosophy-- their anti-semitism is something I find especially upsetting. And yet, I'm interested in them for three reasons:
1) Culturally and sociologically-- as a phenomenon.
2) Because of their critique of modern society. Like Marxism, the Alt Right is often profound and probing in its critique of liberalism, conservatism, and society in general. I share their opposition to globalism, atomism, libertarianism, and many facets of modern society. And it's not just that they oppose many aspects of modern society, but that they are so original and perceptive in their criticism.
3) The Alt Right (like cultural libertarians) are fearless in their critique of political correctness, and this is in very stark contrast to mainstream conservatism-- and, it must be said, to Catholic and Christian commentators. I really feel that most Catholic commentators-- I mean even really good commentators such as Bishop Robert Barron-- are willing to speak the language and inhabit the mental world of poltiical correctness, if only they can dissent from it on a few particulars, such as abortion or homosexuality. The Alt Right (and cultural libertarians like Milo Yiannapolous) just say it like they see it, and it's difficult to listen to the blandness of some Father Perma-Smile or other, after breathing that fresh air.
As for how serious we should take political correcntess-- well, if we can still ask that after the two synods on the family, then we are just not paying attention. I do think there are lessons to be learned from the Alt Right. Maybe we need a Catholic equivalent?
What has the Alt Right critique of globalism got to do with Catholics? Well, I would suggest that the Catholic Church is making a big mistake in committing itself to an ideal of internationalism and supranationalism which few people have ever wanted, or will ever want, and which seems in contradiction to the ideal of subsidiarity. The global elites who run supranational institutions and multinational corporations also seem wedded to a very anti-Catholic social philosophy-- hwww.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/08/15/former-eu-president-criticises-pope-francis-over-euthanasia-ban/.
More than anything else, I think the difference between mainstream conservatism (and Christianity) and the Alt Right (and cultural liberetarians like Milo) lies in their respective atttitudes to the left, or to political correctness. As Ranger noted in his original post, the Alt Right posit a liberal-globalist-feminist hegemony called The Cathedral, which they believe has near-absolute control over the media, politics, education, and so forth. This is not an organization like the Freemason's, it's simply a ruling elite or a pervading philosophy. They have no illusions about this elite, or about the left in general, seeing it as totalitarian and absolutist in its demands. In some ways, especially after Charlottesville, it seems we are seeing something similar to the street battles between communists and Nazis in Weimar Germany-- two factions who are invincible enemies, both of whom are dedicated to the overthrow of the other, an entirely all-or-nothing conflict.
Scary as that is, I think the Alt Right (and the cultural libertarians) are actually more perceptive in their view of the left (or political correctness) than many Catholics-- who persist in the insane, suicidal, delusional policy of "dialogue". I think this is simply failing to read the signs of the times. I haven't read The Benedict Option, but Rod Dreher seems much more awake (red-pilled?) to the actual gravity of our situation, from what I hear. I think the Alt Right are quite correct in their diagnosis of leftism.