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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 14, 2013 12:54:55 GMT
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 7, 2013 20:38:12 GMT
Ah, I think I can see the source of a misunderstanding. When the summer festival is held in Clonmacnois, there is continuous Eucharistic Adoration in the chapel (an actual chapel in an actual building). This is away from the main marquee in which various events take place, including, no doubt, a disco. Well, that's no different to the situation in my town in which we have a chapel of adoration which is 3/4 shops down from a night club. In my experience, when the exposed Blessed Sacrament is brought over to the main marquee, it (He) is treated with appropriate reverence and returned to the chapel at the end of the period of Adoration Hi Maidrin Ruadh, Thanks for the reply. That does explain a lot, thanks. I did say that I am not a member of Y2K and would inevitably be accurate on a few points, so the clarification is much welcomed. I really hope you stay around, I for one would really appreciate your opinions.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 6, 2013 21:02:57 GMT
A Nation Once Again is not the sole possession of ultra-republicans and has some nice comments on the need for virtue among the citizenry. It was also written by a Protestant patriot, who was respected by contemporaries of every persuasion (I've studied the period a bit myself and it's quite remarkable how much he was respected on a personal level by Tory and Whig Unionists, by ultra-Catholics, by all sorts of people who disagreed with his views): It whispered too that freedom's ark And service high and holy Would be profaned by feelings dark And passions mean or lowly For Freedom comes from God's right hand And needs a godly train And righteous men will make our land A nation once again. That is a lesson we all should take to heart. Of course it isn't but this is what the media and probably much of the pro-choice lobby think. The fact that it is most associated with the Wolfe Tones doesn't help either. Agreed on the last bit though.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 6, 2013 20:42:10 GMT
The pro-abort sites are claiming the march was dominated by elderly people. There were quite a lot of elderly people but I was also impressed by the number of young people including couples with young children. What I will say is that it seemed predominantly working-class and rural, which may reflect the YD ethos (several county flags were on display and Donegal in particular seemed very well represented; I met a Cork pro-lifer whom I know personally). The stewards seemed to want to keep us shouting slogans all the time, which IMHO is not very satisfying; a few basic songs (e.g. A Nation Once Again or hymns) might have been more impressive, since even if only a minority knew them that would still have been an impressive volume of sound. After running the pro-abort gauntlet at the Spire we went across the bridge and through D'Olier Street to College Green, then along Nassau street and up into Kildare Street. The platform was opposite the Department of Industry & Commerce and Department of Agriculture buildings, with screens further down Kildare Street and in Molesworth Street. (If anyone is trying to gauge attendance by looking at photos of Kildare Street, they should note that in addition to the overflow into Molesworth Street and the backup of people making their way up from Parnell Square, quite a few people near the platform moved into Kildare Place for the shade and these might not be visible on photos of Kildare Street.) The speakers seem to have begun soon after the head of the march arrived (unlike the earlier Vigils in Merrion Square, where the speakers didn't begin until the square had filled up.) Eoghan de Faoite, Caroline Simons, Declan Ganley, Bernie Smyth and Niamh Ui Bhriain (Nic Mhathuna as was) made speeches. I hadn't realised Ganley had such an English tinge to his accent. There was also a woman called Harkin who described being advised to abort her daughter (now six years old) who has Edwards Syndrome; she spoke passionately of how wrong it was to describe such children as "incapable of life". This was the best speech IMHO, certainly the most moving. Mr Ganley also described how his wife turned down advice to abort a child who was diagnosd as possibly having problems, to explain how passionate he feels about the subject. Mattie McGrath was announced as being on the platform but he didn't speak. There were cheers for the rebel FG and SF TDs and also for Lucinda Creighton (I saw one sign reading "Don't Mind Enda, Follow Lucinda"). Niamh Ui B emphasised the pro-life pledge not to vote for FG again and spoke of building a pro-life alternative (she introduced five volunteers who gathered such pledges.) The sun was a real source of discomfort especially for older people. It broke up about 5 and a lot of people headed for buses on Nassau Street. There were a couple of pipers and drummers on the march. I noticed a group of people flying the old gold harp-on-a-green background flag with Eire Go Brach on it (there were four flags, two of which were upside down). There used to be a fringe group of that name but I know very little about them and hadn't heard of their being active lately, so I'm not sure was it them or just a coincidence. BTW Niamh Ui Bhriain spoke of repeated attacks on YD headquarters (their bins were set on fire yesterday apparently) and of women who work in their offices receiving death threats and rape threats. Will our lamestream media who so lovingly index every item of hatemail received by pro-PLP TDs (and I condemn all such hatemail whoever it is directed towards) pay any attention to this? No they will not! I wouldn't recommend that A Nation Once Again be sung anyway, as that would play into the hands of those who wish to portray us as hypocritical republicans. Ganley's speech does appear impressive, I agree with you on that. The Eire Go Brach flag is actually quite popular amongst Republicans (I have seen it fly outside homes around North Kerry). I think that the movement that Hib refers to has long since disbanded or changed its name: we would have heard of them during the Children's Rights referendum otherwise. I agree that the abuse directed towards emebers of YD is absolutely appalling and to be condemned out of hand, no matter what their view on abortion.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 6, 2013 20:18:04 GMT
As an afterthought, my main concern is that campaigning for a referendum is a massive gamble, especially when it is claimed that the majority of people are pro-life (Unfortunately at this stage, I think it is wishful thinking to claim such a thing,and were it to be defeated, it would result in a massive loss of face for pro-lifers.) Interestingly the last time we got a referendum in 2002, YD rejected it claiming that it didn't go far enough. I would not be surprised if they now regretted that move. Of course, that is all in the past and we have to work with what we have, but I think a Supreme Court challenge invoking Article 40.3.3 would be more likely to succeed as well as being less risky from a pro-life perspective.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 6, 2013 20:11:00 GMT
The pro-aborts had gathered on the traffic island by the Spire. There were more of them than at the last march in Dublin two years ago (they estimate their own numbers at 400 and that seems about reasonable). They were predominantly young people of both sexes in their teens or early twenties, some of noticeably punk or goth appearance; there were also a number of older men. (I think this is the usual profile of far-left, and indeed far-right, movements; a high turnover of young activists and a core of older activists.) The Workers' Solidarity Movement and the Socialist Workers' Party certainly had signs, and I think I saw one from the Abortion Rights Campaign and one from Action on X. (Both the latter groups have significant student membership; there was a handwritten sign claiming to be from "UCD Pro Choice" - shade of Newman!) At the previous march the pro-aborts were only on the traffic island,so it was possible to avoid direct contact with them by staying on the side of the march nearest to the Clery's side of O'Connell Street. On this march, because of their greater numbers, they were able to put pickets on that side of the street as well as on the traffic island, so that for 2-300 yards the marchers had to run a gauntlet of signs and shouting pro-choicers yelling "Shame on you", waving signs accusing us of being liars (often using the most vulgar four-letter words) and of wishing for women's deaths, and in some instances literally pointing at us and shaking their fingers (I saw some young women with colour-dyed hair and metal studs doing this towards the end of the pro-abort picket). Not only was this a deliberate attempt to insult and provoke the marchers, it also made the Garda policing task more different since they had to put a line of Gardai on both sides of the street instead of just one. This is not surprising and indeed, had it been the other way round, the media would be howling about "extreme pro-lifers".
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 6, 2013 20:00:41 GMT
As with the Vigil for Life, I was very glad to see some New Irish among the demonstrators. There were several black marchers of African descent (two women and a man standing near me in Parnell Square holding signs appeared from their accents to be of African birth) and I also noticed several Filipinos of both sexes and a number of young people of South Asian origin among the marchers. I do not know whether these people were Catholic, Protestant, Islamic or of some other religion or none, but it was good to see them turning out for a good cause. They come here to do our hard and dirty work and I hate to hear them sneered at by a certain type of blathering bigot. They are following the same hard path trodden by so many Irish immigrants in the past - "Be just to the stranger amongst you, for remember you were strangers in the land of Egypt". Poles and other European immigrants are harder to distinguish by sight, but I did hear a man standing near me on Parnell Square talking into his mobile in Polish. As usual after a march, I looked at some of the pro-abort sites to see their reactions, and on one of them I came across a post by a young woman who claimed she brought along her two children who are of mixed race and they were subjected to racist abuse by some person or persons among the marchers. I naturally treat complaints from pro-choicers about pro-lifers' behaviour with the greatest suspicion, and I note that none of her fellow pro-choicers who on the same page are denouncing March participants for bringing along their children to the march have suggested she might not have been wise to bring hers, but I regret to say there is a lunatic fringe in Irish society who are capable of such behaviour. So for the sake of argument I will take her word for it, and I will say to her: On behalf of the great majority of pro-lifers at the march, I apologise for this disgraceful behaviour. I think your cause is evil and I will have more to say about the shameful provocation you and your friends engaged in today, but nothing could possibly justify the swinish abuse inflicted on you and your innocent children. Again, taking her word for it, I say to the persons who abused her in that manner, assuming they exist - You should be ashamed of yourselves, insulting anyone, let alone innocent children, for their racial origins, and insulting a woman for being with a man of another race (I use the word conventionally, of course - I believe race is a social construct). If you really want to help the pro-life cause, shut up; better still, stay at home instead of using a great turn-out in defence of innocent life to vent your own psychological problems, and allowing the pro-aborts to use your ravings to damage our defence of unborn life. Again, the multi-cultural make up of the Rally at least deprives the pro-choicers the opportunity to present us as ultra-nationalist racists. Like Hibernicus, I'm not sure that the above event actually took place, but if it did, I second what he has just said.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 2, 2013 18:45:54 GMT
(And given that the address of the supposed organisation is in Dublin, why is she writing from Longford? Because the hoaxers want to portray orthodox Catholics as culchie yahoos.) See my post above.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 2, 2013 18:42:29 GMT
Martin Turner really excelled himself this week in bashing pro-lifers. First, his response to the scandal over the creche staff mistreating children was to portray a Sean Citizen type boasting "Ireland protects children up to birth - after that they're on their own". So pro-lifers are to blame for bad creches? So creche staff would all behave impeccably if abortion was legal? Pray do explain yourself, Mr Turner. Then he showed FF politicians as babies with tricolour nappies wailing in a pram - the pram being pushed by a harrassed-looking Micheal Martin, who exclaims "All right! No whip! No whip!" So if you think for yourself you're a whining baby, whereas the responsible and mature thing is to do whatever the leader tells you, personal convictions bedamned. I wonder is that how Turner responded to Des O'Malley's "stand by the republic" speech? Of course, these cartoons are not meant to stimulate thought, but simply to provoke a kneejerk reaction from wannabe smart guys who think wisdom begins and ends in sneering at pro-lifers. And the worst thing about it is that if abortion is legalised here, the unfortunate children in those creches would be pampered in comparison with their compatriots who may not even get to live, let alone attend a creche.
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EVENTS
Jun 2, 2013 18:38:23 GMT
Post by Young Ireland on Jun 2, 2013 18:38:23 GMT
There was one in Kerry just today, which attracts a decent crowd every year. I don't think that these processions are quite as rare as Hib makes out.
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Post by Young Ireland on May 25, 2013 22:10:58 GMT
I agree, however it is nice to see that a pro-life camp still exists within Labour.
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Post by Young Ireland on May 18, 2013 15:56:29 GMT
Two events coming up on the abortion front:
National Vigil for Life on 8th of June from 3 to 4 in Merrion Square, being organised by the PLC.
All-Ireland Rally for Life on 6th July in Dublin, and YD as usual are organising this.
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Post by Young Ireland on May 8, 2013 19:42:29 GMT
Praying.
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Post by Young Ireland on May 8, 2013 19:22:59 GMT
The IRISH TIMES today has some characteristically loathsome items: Martyn Turner's cartoon equates priests and pro-lifers with the creeps in Ohio who kidnapped women and kept them as sex slaves (it shows two women labelled "divorce" and "contraception" who have escaped, while a third labelled "abortion" remains trapped). So it's outrageous to call pro-aborts what they are, but OK to call pro-lifers rapists, sez MOLOCH'S HERALD. Also in MOLOCH'S HERALD today - the letters page includes witterings from "Bishop" Pat Buckley proclaiming he is generally pro-life but all in favour of the current legislation, and urging Inda, in the words of Lady Macbeth, to "screw up his courage to the sticking place". Considering that LAdy Macbeth is urging Macbeth to commit a cold-blooded murder which brings disaster on their country and damnation on them personally, this is a double-edged quotation. As always, "Bishop" Pat is bold as a lion in denouncing the Roman magisterium, but defers slavishly to its Tara Street rival. Brendan Butler of "We Are Church Ireland", who will be familiar to those who keep an eye on the lay fanclub of the Association of Catholic Priests, minimises the prospect of politicians who vote to legalise abortion being excommunicated and declares that personal conscience must be decisive. Right, so the Vegetarian Society is not allowed to exclude carnivores, because personal conscience must be decisive? If a few dozen trads applied to join his clique, would Mr Butler let them in on the grounds that personal conscience must be decisive? Niall Behan of the Irish Family Planning Association has a piece declaring inter alia that conscientious objection must not be allowed to obstruct the exercise of the "right" to abortion. Perhaps Mr Butler will have a word with him - when hell freezes over or thereabouts. The Dail Sketch writer lauds the Waterford Independent TD John Halligan for demanding a referendum to legalise abortion for rape, and sneers at Inda's evasions. Even for the Irish Times, this has got to be a real low. Mr Behan does not seem to believe in conscientuous objection at all, while "We Are Church"'s stance is unsurprising in that they do not appear to believe in any objective truth or the Magesterium for that matter.
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Post by Young Ireland on May 7, 2013 20:29:23 GMT
Fr Longenecker has a series of posts on his blog about what's wrong with American Catholicism. The first one is on "cultural Catholicism" both in the sense of the identification of Catholicism with immigrant subcultures, and of the "Americanist" tendency to assume that the relationship between Catholicism and America is by definition unproblematic. (Fr Longenecker's views may have been influenced by having grown up in a type of fundamentalist Protestantism which is inherently minoritarian and suspicious of secular culture per se, but his views are still of interest): www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2013/04/whats-killing-american-catholicism-1.html He also references a book on this subject by Russell Shaw - AMERICAN CHURCH. It might be worth keeping an eye out for it. Note BTW some trads in the comboxes (including at least one sedevacantist, so be wary) arguing that the real problem comes from alleged excessive Vatican II naivete about opening up to modernity Fr Longenecker hit the nail on the head there. The paralells between the situation in the US and the situation in Ireland are very strinking indeed.
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