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Post by maolsheachlann on Jul 22, 2015 20:45:46 GMT
I thought TV might be a good topic.
Did TV kill Catholic Ireland?
Is TV evil?
Should Pope Francis watch more TV?
If you watch TV, what shows do you watch?
I watch Star Trek (Next generation and Voyager), the American Office, and...that's about it. Recently I watched the original Battlestar galactica but it was dire. I like Fawlty Towers but it's a long time since I saw it. Also, the original Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin. On EWTN, I watch The Journey Home. Faith and Culture was also good. I think EWTN is too cheesy, though.
Of the current shows, the Big Bang Theory is the only one I watch.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 22, 2015 21:19:09 GMT
I thought TV might be a good topic. Did TV kill Catholic Ireland? I don't think that TV itself killed Catholic Ireland; I think that setting up RTE was probably the best way to go as even if Ireland had no TV channel, people in the border and east coast (and with satellites elsewhere) would still be tuning in to the BBC and UTV/HTV/Granada etc, which in certain respects were much more socially liberal at the time (though it can be argued that RTE has caught up with them and might have even surpassed them).Is TV evil? TV can certialny be used in evil ways, but I wouldn't say that it's evil in itself (even Archbishop McQuaid was not opposed to it in principle). Should Pope Francis watch more TV? Can't comment, since I have no idea of His Holiness' viewing habits.If you watch TV, what shows do you watch? Lately, I've been getting into CSI:Cyber, even if I think much of it, as are many shows involving the apparatus of the US government, is propaganda put out to justify the NSA spying on people.(Note that in last night's episode, the lady in charge of the FBI Cyber department reprimanded one of the hackers on the team for hacking into a suspect's computer but since the suspect was underage, she didn't report him, even though he broke the law! I also like gameshows like Tipping Point and the Chase, and via YouTube, Blockbusters, Catchphrase, Going for Gold, etc.I watch Star Trek (Next generation and Voyager), the American Office, and...that's about it. Recently I watched the original Battlestar galactica but it was dire. I like Fawlty Towers but it's a long time since I saw it. Also, the original Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin. On EWTN, I watch The Journey Home. Faith and Culture was also good. I think EWTN is too cheesy, though. I'm a big fan of Britcoms too. My favourites would be Only Fools and Horses, the original Mr.Bean series and Dad's Army, and I've also liked the Thin Blue Line, Keeping Up Appearances, Yes Minister and Love Thy Neighbour (I know a lot of people don't like it, but it isn't racist at all as it presents the racist Eddie Booth as a boorish brute and his foil Bill is much more sophisticated by comparison). Of the current shows, the Big Bang Theory is the only one I watch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 23:17:47 GMT
I think television is just another tool - neither good nor evil.
I don't really watch anything except the news though. There were probably things I watched in the past, but it's been so long I can't remember what they are.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jul 23, 2015 8:02:06 GMT
Like Pope Francis, I don't watch television as a rule. But it is a tool, like the internet, neither good nor bad. I think the aim is at a cultural lowest common denominator, which is not good. I find television news superficial and there is a certain goldfish bowl aspect to current affairs coverage on RTE, which I get via the radio after which I usually ask myself why I bothered to listen in the first place.
I think my point is that we have a problem with both the cultural and political presentation coming from television. It is the case with the media in general, but at present television is the most important and influential medium (it will have to compete with the internet going forward).
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 23, 2015 21:44:23 GMT
I don't own a TV and probably for that reason I am sensitised to it, the rare times I see it. I feel quite affected.
In the last years, I have spent the occasional night in an Irish Travelodge where I channel surfed, curious and horrified really by how _crass_ it all seemed. I think it is immensely powerful, especially since so many channels arrived.
I recall coming to Britain in 1980 age 16 after multichannel America and was amazed to discover that back then, beyond the BBC, the government only allowed a _single_ commercial channel - channel 3, ITV. Similarly, radio was restricted, which is why there were pirate radio stations then like radio Caroline and Luxembourg.
Even Britain believed in protecting the public it would seem from rampant commercialism.
By contrast, the America I grew up in had unrestricted television since the late 40s with advertising every 10 minutes or so.. Britain in 1980 seemed to me a far less materialistic place than America and I give credit to the wisdom of British government for restricting it all those years.
I suspect it must have been similar in Ireland. Once upon a time was it more restricted, like Britain? If anyone can tell me, I would be very interested. Also would be interested to know if RTE once was free from advertising like the BBC?
It certainly seems to me that TV and its proliferation must have promoted many things which profoundly impacted Catholic Ireland.
Knowing nothing about Irish TV, there is little more I can say in this thread, but I am glad maolsheachlann started it and will be really very interested to hear more.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 8:44:13 GMT
It's all about the money now, Roger. RTÉ, and anyone else, will squeeze in as many adverts as they think they can get away with. Radio isn't much better, if not worse. I have heard the Joe Duffy show be on for 5 minutes, before going to an advert.
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Post by Ranger on Jul 24, 2015 10:29:04 GMT
I don't bother much with television myself, I prefer to get out DVDs of the series and films that I like to watch. Recently I've taken to watching a lot of Japanese Anime films, which I like because they have a tendency to think outside the narrow boxes the West has for films. However some of these (not all by any means) can tend to be somewhat sexualised, which again I think comes from different Japanese attitudes towards sexuality, so I've stayed away from a fair few series I might otherwise have enjoyed.
When I did watch TV I'd always watch science fiction like Stargate and to a lesser extent Star Trek. My favourite show of all time is Joss Whedon's tragically cancelled Firefly, although one weaknes it does have is the same attitude towards sexuality which doesn't really add to it in any way. It does have one of the few well-rounded clerical characters (albeit not a Catholic) that you'll find in TV. I also used to watch a lot of Discovery channel.
I do find that whenever I see any kind of popular shows these days (for want of a better adjective) I feel a bit depressed. On a trip to the US a few years back I had the depressing experience of being introduced to 'the Bachelor,' in which twenty desperate women compete to marry a man they've never met before in order to get the prize money the show offers. There's another version, 'the Bachelorette,' in which the gender roles are reversed.
I think that my tastes in general lead me to not watch what most others watch, but I find that as Roger says this can make us more sensitive (not a bad thing in itself!) but at the same time it can lead us to be very separated from the culture around us, in the sense of not knowing what most people are into. I'm not saying that I recommend watching these kinds of reality TV, but I think that it's important to have an understanding of where most people are at and I can lack this at times because I'm so tuned out of pop culture.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Jul 24, 2015 10:36:24 GMT
My wife loves the Bachelor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 11:34:21 GMT
Ranger, it's funny how you mention that Japan has a different view of sexuality, as I also believe homosexual marriage is seen as taboo in Japan. I find that odd because usually you would imagine that homosexuality would be accepted in a place that takes sexual issues so lightly.
Long Analysis Ahead
Speaking of Anime (I'm not someone who watches it, by the way) have you ever heard of a show called Hellsing, Ranger? It's an anime that mostly revolves around a not entirely evil vampire called Alucard who is in service to the Hellsing Organisation, a Protestant organisation that serves the Queen. As you can probably guess, Hellsing uses Alucard to hunt down other vampires that prey on the innocent.
But where the show gets really interesting is its over-the-top faction war - the 3 factions being Hellsing, the Catholic Church, and the Nazis (keep in mind this show has a fairly modern setting). It's hard to know where the creators stand in regards to the Catholic Church. On the one hand the Church is made out to have questionable morals (they have a secret branch of assassins, and at one point a certain group within the Church invades England), though it is also represented by a character who is shown to be more moral than most (if not all) of the other characters - Fr Alexander Anderson.
While Fr Anderson is shown to be a very unusual priest (part of a branch of the Church known as the Iscariots because of their assassin-like work, comes across as slightly insane at times), he is also shown to be very honourable in that he never preys on the innocent. He is also shown to be disgusted by things that he sees as unjust - he is disgusted by the invasion of England, and is the only character who looks outraged when the main character goes crazy at one point and starts killing riot police just doing their jobs.
Sorry for the long analysis. I just find the portrayal of the Church in this show to be kind of fascinating - at times bad, at times not so bad (as far as anime goes). I think some of it could also be put down to the fact that Catholicism is probably quiet alien to a lot of Japanese people (though I also believe religion isn't always seen favourably in Japanese media in general). If anyway wants some examples of how Catholicism is portrayed in this show, I'll put some videos below:
This first video is with the Japanese voice actors, so it's more over the top than the English version
An introduction to the Fr Anderson. You will notice that he compares "heathens" to "monsters", as well as the old theme of Catholic vs Protestant.
The main character's confrontation with Fr Anderson. More Biblical speaking. You will also notice the obviously wicked Catholic character Enrico Maxwell.
Congratulations if you watched all of that
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jul 24, 2015 12:58:24 GMT
Shades of Dan Brown there methinks.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jul 24, 2015 14:30:25 GMT
I don't own a TV and probably for that reason I am sensitised to it, the rare times I see it. I feel quite affected. In the last years, I have spent the occasional night in an Irish Travelodge where I channel surfed, curious and horrified really by how _crass_ it all seemed. I think it is immensely powerful, especially since so many channels arrived. The terrestrial channels are relatively OK, it's the satellite and cable channels which can be much worse.I recall coming to Britain in 1980 age 16 after multichannel America and was amazed to discover that back then, beyond the BBC, the government only allowed a _single_ commercial channel - channel 3, ITV. Similarly, radio was restricted, which is why there were pirate radio stations then like radio Caroline and Luxembourg. Unfortunately, this didn't last, all the ITV companies in England were merged and now it's much more commercialised, even if nowhere near the States. That's not to say that ITV back then didn't have problems - it had very serious problems with union militancy, causing nearly the entire network to shut down for three months at one stage.Even Britain believed in protecting the public it would seem from rampant commercialism. Sadly, Thatcher disagreed, and things were never the same again.By contrast, the America I grew up in had unrestricted television since the late 40s with advertising every 10 minutes or so.. Britain in 1980 seemed to me a far less materialistic place than America and I give credit to the wisdom of British government for restricting it all those years. Hear hear.I suspect it must have been similar in Ireland. Once upon a time was it more restricted, like Britain? If anyone can tell me, I would be very interested. Also would be interested to know if RTE once was free from advertising like the BBC? It was actually less restricted here. RTE was never free from advertising in spite of the licence fee.It certainly seems to me that TV and its proliferation must have promoted many things which profoundly impacted Catholic Ireland. Agreed, though I do think that things would have been worse if RTE wasn't set up, since in the 1950s, many people in the Republic were embarrassed that they had no TV station while the North did. To find out more, a good book outlining the origins of Irish television is Irish Television: The Political and Social Origins by Robert J. Savage from Cork University Press.Knowing nothing about Irish TV, there is little more I can say in this thread, but I am glad maolsheachlann started it and will be really very interested to hear more.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 24, 2015 18:37:38 GMT
Thank you for that detailed, most helpful response, Young Ireland! Surprising to know you had license fees _and_ advertising on RTE from the beginning. And yes Thatcher has a lot to answer for ...
But grateful for everything here. I am cut off, never seen Reality TV in my life. Let alone Batchelor/ette … Nor Antaine did I know radio was so bad. Helsing intrigues somehow. Sometimes I think just making the Church VISIBLE to people at some level is helpful, as long as it's not too outrageously bad … (Haven't yet watched clips, but I certainly will do.)
Quickly pasting in a quote I find fascinating here:
What can I say, except … Up Dev!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 19:54:34 GMT
I suppose that can be true Roger. Assuming it's not being portrayed as an evil entity, I also think merely having Catholic figures present can be beneficial.
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Post by Ranger on Jul 25, 2015 10:17:25 GMT
My wife loves the Bachelor. I must have missed the episode starring you Maolsheachlann
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Post by Ranger on Jul 25, 2015 10:39:03 GMT
I had seen clips of Hellsing previously Antaine and I think they put me off; I can tolerate a certain amount of violence but only so much and it seemed excessive. I also got the impression that the Church wasn't portrayed in a very good light, but that might just be the little I saw of it.
But I think you're right about there being a fascination amongst Japanese with Western religion. The problem is I think it only goes skin deep, much like our own Western obsession with Eastern religions which is very often pick-and-choose.
One other anime I watched some time ago was called Trinity Blood, which was about a world in which the Catholic Church was locked in a war with vampires (so some similarities there) although it was very much pro-Church (at least the parts I saw). Its idea of the Church was a bit fantastical though; the Pope is a small child and his mentor is a female Cardinal.
One anime somebody has highly recommended to me is Trigun, as apparently the creator of the series is a Japanese convert from Buddhism to Catholicism and it deals a lot with issues such as pacifism versus just war.
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