|
Dublin
Nov 27, 2008 12:06:45 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on Nov 27, 2008 12:06:45 GMT
Well, I won't take offence if I don't see you at the traditional Latin Mass there on Saturday mornings or on holy days. Is it well attended Askel? In absolute terms, no. There are between 30 and 40 regulars. But in relative terms...I don't know how this compares your average Saturday morning Mass in rural Wicklow, which is the control figure. It is better than the 10 am Traditional Latin Mass which ran on Saturday Mornings in Roundwood between 1999 and 2003, which got between 15 and 20 people. The traditional Latin Mass in St Kevin's in Harrington St on Saturdays is only slightly better - it averages at 40. But if you take other factors into control: eg as Sunday Mass in the traditional Latin form is available in Dublin but not in Wicklow, there are less people in Dublin likely to go to the Saturday morning Mass to make a point as they might in Wicklow and some of the other venues which only offer weekday Masses, but on the other hand whereas in the Catholic world attendance at Sunday Mass in rural areas is without a doubt higher than in urban areas; attendance at weekday Mass is higher in urban areas than in rural areas (accessibility is a major factor here - but the pattern is international in the Catholic world). From this point of view, the Newtownmountkennedy figure looks good. Another way of looking at it is to compare Newtownmountkennedy's 30-40 on Saturday with St Kevin's 300-400 on Sunday. Wicklow's population is shy of 130,000; Dublin's (the old County and City) is about 1.2 million. Even assuming that there is a lower proportionate Catholic population in Dublin, Wicklow does good. St Kevin's is accessible; Newtownmountkennedy isn't. Sunday obligation is binding on all Catholics (how they regard it is a different matter); no Catholic need go to Mass on Saturday. Yet Newtownmountkennedy gets a congregation on Saturday morning that matches that on Sunday in Dublin City. I think we can take it the Newtownmountkennedy is relatively speaking out performing Dublin here. The holy day provision is new. Catholics don't go to Mass on holy days in near the same proportion as they do on Sundays in spite of the obligation to do so and the St Kevin's congregation would be significantly lower on holy days than on Sunday (even if you count the sum of two Masses). It will be interesting to see how many show up at the Newtownmountkennedy Mass on 8 December.
|
|
|
Dublin
Nov 27, 2008 12:27:03 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Nov 27, 2008 12:27:03 GMT
That is an interesting manner in comparing the relative congregations in Dublin and Wicklow, Askel. I think something might be done about looking at figures at traditional Latin Masses.
|
|
|
Dublin
Dec 5, 2008 11:18:58 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Dec 5, 2008 11:18:58 GMT
|
|
|
Dublin
Apr 6, 2009 15:58:34 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on Apr 6, 2009 15:58:34 GMT
Mass will take place in St Joseph's Chapel, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow at 10 am on Easter Sunday 12 April. Father Smith celebrating. All welcome.
|
|
|
Dublin
Apr 14, 2009 9:27:08 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 14, 2009 9:27:08 GMT
Mass will take place in St Joseph's Chapel, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow at 10 am on Easter Sunday 12 April. Father Smith celebrating. All welcome. Anyone know how this went?
|
|
|
Dublin
Apr 14, 2009 11:33:47 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on Apr 14, 2009 11:33:47 GMT
Mass will take place in St Joseph's Chapel, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow at 10 am on Easter Sunday 12 April. Father Smith celebrating. All welcome. Anyone know how this went? Brilliantly. There were about 100 people present - there were 40 at the Christmas Day Mass. A number of the Wexford congregation came up including a few servers and an organist and some Wexford people joined the tiny Newtownmountkennedy choir. It was a real encouragement to Fr Smith to put on a regular Sunday TLM, but he is not in a position to do this every Sunday. But 100 people at Mass in Newtownmountkennedy is like getting 1,000 people in Dublin, so they are doing very well.
|
|
|
Dublin
Apr 17, 2009 13:25:42 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 17, 2009 13:25:42 GMT
100 people in Newtownmountkennedy is excellent. The next question is if it encourages Father Smith to put on a regular Sunday Mass.
|
|
|
Dublin
Apr 17, 2009 22:08:17 GMT
Post by charlottekeating on Apr 17, 2009 22:08:17 GMT
In response to alaisdir6's misled account of St. Thomas Aquinas School above...
St Thomas Aquinas School was the best thing that ever happened to me. It set me up for life, both spiritually and academically. I have just graduated with honours from Trinity College Law and firmly believe that I owe that to the little school set up in 1994. Even though I was only 8 when it started I was learning Latin and French (I went on to receive As in both in my Leaving Cert). We never studied Russian, although we might have learned the odd cúpla focal here and there!) in addition to in-depth training in the core subjects. It was in St Thomas Aquinas that I developed my love for languages, history, geography and science. The books used in the mainstream curriculum, while used in the school, were supplemented by books of much higher academic quality. We had access to a vast library and I was reading Dickens, Louisa May Alcott, George MacDonald and a host of other classical authors at the age of 8- how many school children have the opportunity to be introduced to such a treasury of knowledge from such varied sources? Religion was of course vital to the school.We had Catechism, Bible history, attended the Mass on Tuesdays and Thursdays and had a visit to the Blessed Sacrament every other day, when we made spiritual communions. At no stage was our academic schooling compromised. This religious background prepared me for being introduced to mainstream education where I did not receive such instruction and now I can say, at age 22 my faith is stronger than ever.
We were encouraged to be confident at the same time as being humble; a delicate line exists between the two, but was achieved through the excellent teaching staff who, along with their knowledge, were learned in human nature and had a great way with children. It is true that Ms. Purcell and Mr.Mohr (a German American) and his wife were not qualified in the sense of the word, but they were far more capable than other primary teachers I had encountered. Indeed, a great many private schools were founded by the efforts of unqualified teachers (Rathdown School, for example). Mr. Mohr was a university professor who specialised in English and has written a book entitled ‘How to Write: Tools for the Craft’. As well as English literature and language class (I studied Romeo and Juliet in 6th class, which gave me the advantage when it came to studying it for my Junior Cert), we were taught grammar. When I did Latin in secondary school, we were taught English grammar, as it is not taught in English class in schools anymore. In St.Thomas Aquinas, we became competent in spelling, punctuation, sentence construction, verbs, adverbs, nouns and superlatives. When I was in 4th class our table quiz team came 2nd place in the Credit Union competition which must have included over 20 national schools.
As far as Irish was concerned, I was streamed into the higher class in my first year of secondary school, where I remained and achieved an A in the Leaving Cert.
Other hobbies were cultivated- we had art class weekly, became skilled in speech and drama by putting on plays in the church hall, were encouraged to play games which built team skills. We went on numerous class trips to historic sites, farms and museums in our little white minibus. There was a great sense of family in the school, older ones would have a genuine concern for younger ones. We learned discipline and respect for all.
When I left the school in 1998, I cried as I knew I would miss it. Mr and Mrs Mohr left the school that year and a qualified, Irish speaking teacher, became principal. The school continued for a number of years, but unfortunately closed, mainly due to young families who lived a great distance away from the Dublin area deciding to home-school their children. I can only hope that when I have a family there will be a school like S.T.A.S there for them. Like any school, we were given equal opportunities. Some took them, and some did not. I do not look back through rose-tinted glasses at the school, but know that my achievements are due to the great head-start I received there in every sense of the word. I made life-long friends there. The school was not a failure; each child took something away from the school. Success stories of St. Thomas Aquinas School include my brother, who won a scholarship to Sandford Park School; another student, who attended St. Michael’s Secondary School studied English, completed a Masters and is now an English teacher, her love of which was cultivated in St Thomas Aquinas; others are currently doing Bachelor of Arts degrees in UCD; some are studying engineering, one is opening her own business and another is in the process of becoming a pilot. None of us left the school with a ‘substandard’ education.
In Father Couture’s defence, who did so much great work setting up the school, I personally never witnessed any child making their Holy Communion below the age of seven, but if it ever did happen it would have been done with good reason. I made my Confirmation when I was 9, which is the traditional age for receiving the sacrament and was the age that all the children in the school received it.
So perhaps it might be wise to get one’s facts right before one launches an unwarranted attack on an institution so many sacrifices were made for and which did so much good for so many children.
|
|
|
Dublin
Apr 20, 2009 9:38:17 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 20, 2009 9:38:17 GMT
In response to alaisdir6's misled account of St. Thomas Aquinas School above... St Thomas Aquinas School was the best thing that ever happened to me. As this thread deals with the availability of the traditional Mass in Dublin, it is inappropriate to reply to this post here, but I will do so in another thread on education.
|
|
|
Dublin
May 14, 2009 15:55:23 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on May 14, 2009 15:55:23 GMT
In addition to the regular Saturday morning Mass at 11 am in St Joseph's Church, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow, Mass will take place on the following days: Thursday 21 May, Ascension Thursday - 11 am. Sunday 7 June, Trinity Sunday - 10 am Thursday 11 June, Corpus Christi - 11 am.
|
|
|
Dublin
Jun 15, 2009 20:33:07 GMT
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 15, 2009 20:33:07 GMT
The Bealach Colm Cille will take place on 20 June, Saturday, with Mass in St Kevin's Church, Glendalough at 8pm.
|
|
|
Dublin
Jul 3, 2009 10:02:44 GMT
Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jul 3, 2009 10:02:44 GMT
From Dublin Archdiocesan website: www.dublindiocese.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1307&Itemid=363Liotúrgí as Gaelige A Aithreacha agus a Phobal Dé, I mí Eanáir na bliana 2000 bhunaigh a Shoilse, an t-Árd-Easpag Ó Conaill, atá anois ina Cháirdinéal, An Coiste Tréadach chun moltaí a chur roimhe maidir le freastal tréadach ar phobal na Gaeilge san Árddeoise. Bhuail an Coiste (Féach Dublin Diocesan Guidebook 2008, p. 46) le sagairt, agus le daoine in gach ceann de chúig ranna na hÁrddeoise agus le Pobal an Aifrinn. Bunaíodh Pobal an Aifrinn in 1973, eagraíocht do thuataigh idir fir agus mná le tacaíocht a thabhairt ar fud na hÁrddeoise don liotúirge trí Ghaeilge. Le tamall anuas, le cabhair ó Phobal an Aifrinn, bhuail an Coiste Tréadach le baill de Choistí Tréadacha na bParóistí agus tá moltaí curtha faoi mo bhráid ag an gCoiste Tréadach. Toisc go bhuil líon na sagart ag laghdú agus go bhfuil laghdú dá réir ar líon na n-Aifreann Domhnaigh i bparóistí áirithe, is eol dom gur chuireadh críoch le hAifrinn as Gaeilge i gcuid mhaith paróiste. Ach tá dualgas ann freastal tréadach ar árd-chaighdeán a dhéanamh ar phobal na Gaeilge san Árddeoise. Rinne an Coiste Tréadach fiosrú tosaigh i measc sagairt na nDeoise agus tá geall le céad (100) sagart sásta bheith ar rota leis an Aifreann a léamh as Gaeilge in ionaid ainmnithe ar fud na hÁrddeoise. Tá a leithéid de shocrú déanta cheana féin san Aireagal in Árd Aidhin, i mBelfield, i nDún Droma, i mBrí Chualann, i C.U.S i Sráid Liosáin, i nDraighneán (Sórd Cholmcille) agus déanfar sochrú in áiteanna eile ar fud na Deoise ar ball. Le cabhair ón gCoiste Tréadach tá na socraithe seo á ndéanamh: Ainmneofar ionaid eile de réir mar is gá agus déanfaidh gach ionad freastal ar ghrúpa paróistí le cabhair ó Rota na sagart. Ainmneofar sagart do gach ceann de chúig (5) cheantar na hÁrddeoise le comhordú a dhéanamh maidir le hullmhú, le ceiliúradh agus le clárú na sacraimintí trí Ghaeilge sna hionaid éagsúla. Cuirfear cúrsaí ar fáil do shagairt agus do thuataí gur mian leo feabhas a chur ar a gcuid Gaeilge ar mhaithe leis an liotúirge agus leis an obair thréadach. Déanfaidh an Coiste Tréadach agus Coiste Achmhainní Liotúirgeacha na Deoise cúram de na cúrsaí sin. Ar eagla na mí-thuisceana, má tá paróiste ar bith ag smaoineamh ar athraithe a dhéanamh maidir leis an Aifreann as Gaeilge, be chóir dó é sin a phlé liom agus leis an gCoiste Tréadach i dtús báire. Iarraim chomh maith go dtabharfadh sagairt nach bhfuil ar an Rota cabhair do na sagairt atá air, trí uanaíocht a dhéanamh orthu le hAifrinn as Béarla a cheiliúradh nuair is gá. Gabhaim buíochas leis na sagairt agus leis na paróistí a dhein freastal ar phobal na Gaeilge le daichead bliain anuas agus leis na sagairt atá fós ag freastal agus leo siúd a thoiligh dul ar an Rota. Gabhaim buíochas ar leith le Pobal an Aifrinn as a bhfuil déanta acu le daichead bliain anuas agus atá fós á dhéanamh acu. Istigh leis seo tá liosta na n-Ionad ainmnithe go dtí seo maille le hainmneacha na sagart a bheidh ag comhordú na socraithe. Tá liosta na bparóistí san Árddeoise ar fad ina bhfuil an t-Aifreann á léamh as Gaeilge agus amanntaí na n-Aifreann le fáil ar Idirlíon na Deoise: www.dublindiocese.ie. Ma tá soiléiriú de dhíth ort faoi na socraithe seo labhair le: An t-Easpag Fiachra Ó Ceallaigh, ofm, Cathaoirleach, ag 01-453-7495; An t-Ath. Pádraig Ó Cochláin, Rúnaí, ag 01-833-8905. Beidh feabhas mór ar Liotúirgí as Gaeilge ach ceol maith liotúirgeach as Gaeilge a bheith ar fáil. Ta súil agam gur féidir grúpa tacaíochta ceoltóirí a chur le chéile a chabhróidh sna ceantair ina mbeidh an t-Aifreann á cheiliúradh as Gaeilge. Ta sé tábhactach chomh maith go ndéanfaí gearr-ullmhú ar chomhthionóil ionas gur fearr páirt a ghlacfaí sna iomannaí, sna gáir mholta agus sna freagraí le linn an Aifrinn. Guím beannacht Dé, cumhdach na Maighdine is idirghuí Lorcáin Naofa oraibh. Mise go beannachtach, Diarmuid Ó Máirtin, Árd-Easpag Atha Cliath.
|
|
|
Dublin
Jul 3, 2009 10:19:36 GMT
Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jul 3, 2009 10:19:36 GMT
Sorry to post a lengthy letter in Irish without translation, but I'll give the main points:
1. Cardinal Connell established a Pastoral Commission to liase with Pobal an Aifrinn (the association of the Faithful seeking Mass and the sacraments in Irish) and the archdiocesan priests and administration to see to the needs of Gaeilgóirí in the Archdiocese. This committee liaised with committees of the Archdiocesan parishes over several years.
2. Due decrease in numbers of priests and Masses in Parishes, the Mass in Irish in several parishes was cancelled. The Pastoral Committtee attempted to address that.
3. A rota of 100 priests capable of saying Mass in Irish was drawn up.
4. Every effort will be made to guarrantee Mass in Irish on Sundays in each of the five areas of the Archdiocese.
5. Provision will be made for priests to attend courses to learn, improve or refresh their Irish.
6. Priests not on the rota are asked to accomodate priests who are on the rota by saying Mass in English when the priest is obliged to say Mass in Irish.
In summary, I don't grudge the Irish speakers of the Dublin Archdiocese this generous provision, but can anyone imagine crossing out 'Irish' and putting in 'Latin - Extraordinary Form'? This is much more generous than the chaplaincy provisions. Is it a moot point regarding numbers of Gaeilgóirí and trads in Dublin? Remember some Gaeilgóirí are trads.
|
|
|
Dublin
Jul 3, 2009 10:52:27 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on Jul 3, 2009 10:52:27 GMT
I read Archbishop Martin's letter in Irish and the provision for Mass in Irish is more than generous - this letter is encouraging, if not mandating Mass in Irish. For example, explicitly directing non-Irish speaking priests to fill in at English Masses when the Irish-speaking priests are obliged to say Mass in Irish elsewhere. There is also provision for Sunday Mass in Irish in each of the five divisions of the Archdiocese.
It may be said that the trad Mass is available every day but Mass in Gaelic isn't. But there is no comparison. I think most trads would prefer more Sunday/Holy day provision rather than Mass every day. Can Dermo be as generous to trads. He can if he wants I suppose.
|
|
|
Dublin
Aug 11, 2009 12:41:44 GMT
Post by Askel McThurkill on Aug 11, 2009 12:41:44 GMT
Father Smith will say Mass for the feast of the Assumption at 11.30 am on Saturday 15 August at St Joseph's Church, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow.
|
|