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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 19, 2009 10:38:51 GMT
You can't compare Dublin to any other city in Ireland, aside from the size. Dublin has about four times as many Catholics as Cork has.
1. The indult Mass was instituted in Dublin in 1985 and in Cork in 2005. That is a difference of twenty years;
2. Dublin has more priests available to it. Significantly, none of the priests who say Mass in Cork is a Cork and Ross priest: one is a Franciscan; two are Holy Ghost Missionaries; two are retired priests of American dioceses who are natives of Cork; and one, the only young man among them, is a priest of the Cloyne diocese. Each of the three chaplaincy priests is a priest of the Archdiocese of Dublin, none of the three have pastoral duties outside the chaplaincy (though all three have administrative/academic duties aside from the chaplaincy), and most importantly, all three have a long history of involvement in the indult Mass. In the case of Father William Richardson (imagine the stick he gets from a name like that), through formation with both the Institute of Christ the King and the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter and in the case of Father Michael G. Nevin, through a number of year spent in Fontgombault. There is no one in this position in Cork and Ross or any other Irish diocese for that matter.
3. Bishop Buckley of Cork and Ross is not motivated by the sort of ambition attributed of the Archbishop of Dublin who is perceived as looking over his shoulder at what Rome thinks. Again, this is unique to Mgr Martin among Irish bishops. At the time of Summorum Pontificum, Mgr Martin was caught between two stools. Less than a year previously, he designated St Audoen's as the Polish Church. This made things very difficult for the indult, so the creation of the chaplaincy was an amendment. Effectively, the most significant gain in the chaplaincy is that funerals, weddings, baptisms are no longer an issue - before hand, some people got them and some people didn't. The Dublin chaplaincy looks much better on paper than in reality.
When all is said and done, the average attendance at the one Sunday Mass a month in Cork is 120, which is about the equivalent of 480 in Dublin. Dublin don't get that number on Sundays - so Cork is doing better. Especially as there are Masses on in Tralee and Limerick on the same Sunday.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Feb 19, 2009 12:34:16 GMT
Are yeh slaggin' us Dubs now, Al?
Dontcha know the Dublin Mass has always been controlled by a small faction, which is why some people got weddings and funerals before 2007 and some people didn't.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 25, 2009 9:56:52 GMT
Are yeh slaggin' us Dubs now, Al? Dontcha know the Dublin Mass has always been controlled by a small faction, which is why some people got weddings and funerals before 2007 and some people didn't. Well, we can thank God the inequitable situation in Dublin was resolved in 2007, after 23 years.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jul 6, 2009 9:24:08 GMT
Very important announcement in Cork City: Cardinal Pell to say Pontifical High Mass in the Extraordinary Form in CorkHis Eminence Cardinal Pell will say a Pontifical High Mass in the Extraordinary Form at St.Peter & Paul's Church in Cork on Sunday 12th July at 11.00 a.m. The Mass is forming part of the celebrations of the 150th Anniversary of the laying of the foundation stone of St.Peter & Pauls, which took place in August 1859. This will be the first celebration of the Latin Mass by a Cardinal in Ireland since the Liturgical changes of the late 1960's. St.Peter & Paul's is a church eminently suitable for this celebration and some very recent changes to the sanctuary lay out will contribute even more to the Rite. For further information, contact Maurice O'Brien, LMSI Convenor for Cork: mauriceandjaneobrien@gmail.com
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Post by eircomnet on Jul 7, 2009 12:16:28 GMT
Good news. Hope it gets plenty of publicity.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Jul 7, 2009 12:44:23 GMT
Yeah, this could turn things around in the southern capital.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Aug 12, 2009 11:48:31 GMT
Last night saw Father Gabriel Burke say Mass in Kilcoe, near Skibberreen in the old Ross Diocese. Mass takes place annually in West Cork. Bantry and Durrus were previous locations - that was the first time the EF took place in Kilcoe Parish Church since the liturgical changes.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Sept 23, 2009 14:27:51 GMT
Mass will take place every Sunday in Ss Peter and Paul at 12 noon from 4 October. Mass will also take place here on Holydays of Obligation.
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 25, 2009 19:38:04 GMT
I was at the Midnight Mass (9 p.m.) in St. Peter and Paul's last night. Beautifully sung by three young priests, 80-00 in attendance (though I suspect some may have been there for Midnight Mass rather than specifically for the EF). The big problem was I think that it was a little too much like a concert; not only was it not a dialogue Mass but there were no bilingual Massbooks available, and the readings were read in Latin only (though there was a sermon on the Gospel of the day). I think this last is taking things too far - the people should hear the wonderful prophecy of Isaiah and the words of St. Paul and St. Luke in their own language.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Dec 28, 2009 17:11:28 GMT
I was at the Midnight Mass (9 p.m.) in St. Peter and Paul's last night. Beautifully sung by three young priests, 80-00 in attendance (though I suspect some may have been there for Midnight Mass rather than specifically for the EF). The big problem was I think that it was a little too much like a concert; not only was it not a dialogue Mass but there were no bilingual Massbooks available, and the readings were read in Latin only (though there was a sermon on the Gospel of the day). I think this last is taking things too far - the people should hear the wonderful prophecy of Isaiah and the words of St. Paul and St. Luke in their own language. I was there at noon on Christmas day. The attendance was about the same. Some people looked as though they were there out of curiosity or for the aesthetic experience, but no harm in that; they may come back for the Mass itself. The celebrant read the Gospel in English before the sermon. I agree the absence of bilingual Mass books is unfortunate. It is important that everything is done to secure a large and stable congregation for this Mass, and anything that would help that needs to be done. Given that the LMSI has done so much to have this Mass available, I wonder if they could help with some Mass books? Perhaps members of this forum would like to make some contribution to the cost. I certainly would.
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 29, 2009 13:36:49 GMT
I was a bit surprised at their absence because I've seen the little red massbooks there in the past. It is IMHO unfortunate that the Cork and Belfast Masses are not dialogue Masses as in Dublin (i.e. the congregation should say the responses rather than the server alone). I don't see the point of having some of the readings in Latin only. (This might not matter so much if the congregation had missals giving the translations, but most of them won't).
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Post by guillaume on Dec 31, 2009 12:16:45 GMT
I was at the Midnight Mass (9 p.m.) in St. Peter and Paul's last night. Beautifully sung by three young priests, 80-00 in attendance (though I suspect some may have been there for Midnight Mass rather than specifically for the EF). The big problem was I think that it was a little too much like a concert; not only was it not a dialogue Mass but there were no bilingual Massbooks available, and the readings were read in Latin only (though there was a sermon on the Gospel of the day). I think this last is taking things too far - the people should hear the wonderful prophecy of Isaiah and the words of St. Paul and St. Luke in their own language. Midnight Mass at 9pm ? Novus Ordo style... Most of the "midnight mass" occurs now around 7 or 8pm.... While this had became a bad habit in the Church, I am surprised than an EF is following those rules. I was fortunate enough this year to be at home for Xmas with family. We went to the Midnight Mass, traditional way : hymns and songs starting at 11pm then Mass itself starting at 00am sharp, with the priest bringing the baby Jesus into the Nativity set and bless Him. I remember Father Brady in Wexford used to do the same. Regarding the whole latin mass, I agree that the reading of the Gospel - at least - should be made also in vernacular. It is usually the way in most traditional celebration. Most of the 1962 missal are bilingual. There are now avalaible everywhere.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 1, 2010 0:29:51 GMT
I would prefer it nearer midnight but given that it's a city centre church and people will have come in from some distance it's best to adjust to their circumstances. "the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath". glad to know you had such a splendid celebration, Guillaume.
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Post by Michael O'Donovan on Jan 3, 2010 21:48:02 GMT
I would prefer it nearer midnight. My recollection is that in the last days of the Traditional Latin Mass and especially in the early years of the New Mass, when most people still felt obliged to go to Midnight Mass at Christmas, parishes started to move the Mass forward to 11.00 p.m. to avoid drunks turning up at midnight and causing disgraceful scenes. Masses have since become earlier to be more "user-friendly". Fr Brady in Wexford is unfortunately far too old and frail to attempt a midnight Mass but he still bravely continues to celebrate in mid-morning (see www.faithapostolate.ie).
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 18, 2010 15:52:41 GMT
It seems conscientious drunks intent on attending Mass at Christmas and Easter have had an effect on arrangements on those days.
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