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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 6:11:51 GMT
I just adore how they manage to speak for Jesus and his desires regards material goods. Here's a desire of Jesus for you boys; go to Mass! Bullies the lot of them, how are we supposed to run a church for a billion people without infrastructure? Are people not allowed to own and keep their own property now? Do they realise where they're going with that train of thought? It's a peculiarly Irish trait is begrudgery.
Hibernicus, you are a history buff are you not? The Black Book of Communism by Stephane Courtois, is it trustworthy?
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Post by hibernicus on Dec 30, 2011 15:41:34 GMT
I think it is fairly trustworthy, though I have not read it. It was meant to drive home the scale of the crimes of communism to French-speaking readers (French intellectuals tended to make excuses for the USSR longer than their English-speaking counterparts). Its argument that the communists were as bad as the Nazis is more of an open matter - admittedly this is meant to rebut the claim that communism is the opposite of fascism so that you can't be really anti-fascist/anti-Nazi unless you are a Marxist (the SWP and its "anti-fascist" front organisations do this all the time) but I don't like those sort of comparison games - all such crimes are incommensurable. I have been reading a book I had about Kim Jong-il. I had forgotten the full extent of his crimes and the suffering he inflicted. I have also been watching the old 1965 Gospel film THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD in which one of the major themes is the oppression of the Jews by the Romans and the yearning messianic hope. Herod the Great and his son Herod Antipas are significant characters, and I must say they made me think of the Kims. The poster on Politics.ie is practising what might be called angelism - the idea that Christianity is something purely personal, subjective and individual, which ought not to require organisation or collective possessions. The integrists are IMHO on to something when they say "liberal Christianity" tends to reduce the Faith to a wraith of this sort removed from everyday life (this is why someone like John Rao describes himself as standing "for the whole Christ") - the trouble with THEM is that they go to the other extreme which is idolatry and maintain that a Catholic confessional state is equivalent to the Kingdom of God and that Catholics cannot achieve anything unless such a state is first created. This is quite contrary to St Augustine's actual argument in THE CITY OF GOD. After the conversion of the Roman Empire Constantian panegyrists like Eusebius of Caesarea maintained that the Christian Emperor was God's representative on earth and that the Empire would endure forever since it had accepted the true faith. When the empire began to crumble the remaining pagans not unreasonably pointed out that by the arguments of Eusebius and Co it would appear that Christianity was not true after all. To this Augustine argued that the Empire is not identical to the City of God, which will only be separated from the City of Man in eternity; here below the two are mixed, and we must work ceaselessly to build and advance the City of God without ever expecting to see it fully completed in this world. So recently our people thought that Ireland was an incorruptible people, destined to rebuld the City of God in Europe and worldwide. Now we are like the Jews after the Exodus wandering in the wilderness, or after the corruption of the Davidic monarchy and in the Babylonian exile, or under the Seleucids. Our own sins have brought us to disaster, but we must still sing the Lord's songs beside the bitter waters of exile and strive like Ezra and Nehemiah to build anew the fallen walls of Zion and teach the people from the forgotten Books of the Law. I write this on the feast of St Thomas of Canterbury, in some ways a proud and angry man, but one who died to bear witness that the Church of God should not be reduced to a subordinate department of state.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Jan 24, 2012 15:05:15 GMT
Very interesting that there is a strong tradition in the Irish language, from Lebor Gabala in the 8th century to Mgr Brendan Devlin's Néal Maidine agus Tine Oíche in the 20th of comparing the fortunes of the Irish, especially in difficult times to the Jews. Interesting I should say this in a CSP thread. I remember when Emmanuel Sweeney, then of Muintir na hÉirean (lead at the time by Richard Greene) who handed the pro-divorce campaign a massive propaganda victory by alluding to the ethno-religious background of Deputies Taylor and Shatter.
Mr Sweeney ran for the European Parliament in 2007 and came nowhere, but didn't help the more responsible Caroline Symmons.
I seem to recall that he pre-empted the foundation of the Christian Centrist Party by launching a group called the Christian Democrats in 1991 who wanted to cut pub opening hours and open embassies in Cardiff and Edinburgh. Any idea what he's doing now?
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 24, 2012 23:32:04 GMT
The Euro election which Emmanuel Sweeney contested most recently was in 2009, not 2007. At the same time he stood for Dublin City Council in the Pembroke-Rathmines electoral area, giving an address in Ranelagh. He got less than 1% of votes cast (in both contests). His replacement candidate for the Euro was a woman called Anne Marie Sweeney O'Farrell, presumably a spouse or relative.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jan 25, 2012 12:58:04 GMT
My mistake - of course it was 2009. I presume he ran as an independent?
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 25, 2012 17:57:53 GMT
YEs, he was an Independent - and the fact that the only named substitute on his European "list of substitutes" (who would replace him if he was elected and then died or resigned) seems from her name to be a relative suggests he doesn't have much in the way of organisation.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 7, 2012 13:51:20 GMT
His loose cannon approach will hinder any group like the CSP in their efforts. I recall Sweeney was once very close the Richard Greene who is now the CSP leader. I wonder if he signed up?
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Post by hibernicus on Mar 7, 2012 21:42:45 GMT
Greene would be very foolish indeed if he has anything to do with Emmanuel Sweeney ever again. I remember someone who had been in Muintir na h-Eireann telling me after its disintegration that Sweeney was not elected by the members as deputy leader but nominated by Greene (though the members acquiesced). Apparently the rationale was that he was able to give financial assistance to the party - much too dear at the price, considering the way things turned out.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 8, 2012 11:16:24 GMT
Someone I know in Muintir na hÉireann reckoned Greene and Sweeney were hand-in-glove and that Greene put Sweeney up to make his egregious remarks about Mervyn Taylor and Alan Shatter's ethnicity.
This may well have lost the 1995 divorce referendum.
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Post by hibernicus on Mar 8, 2012 18:24:17 GMT
I remember Greene specifically disavowed anti-semitism and subsequently published an article on Edith Stein in the BRANDSMA, so I don't think he was in league with Sweeney (for one thing Sweeney left Muintir almost immediately which he would hardly have done if he was in league with Greene). I think Sweeney is just an ego-tripper and a loose cannon, not anybody's puppet.
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Post by electionlit on Mar 11, 2012 0:05:21 GMT
Spartacus, I can vaguely recall an attempt to launch a 'Christian Socialist Party' in Waterford and in Dublin South-West in the mid-1980s which seems to have died in the water. This proceeded the Christian Democrats and Christian Principles Party of 1991 by several years. Found this from the 80's about Christian Socialism, probably not related though
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Post by hibernicus on Mar 11, 2012 22:21:30 GMT
No, it's not the same - it's an Emmet Stagg leaflet. Interesting as showing that he had links with leftist "liberation theology" elements in the Church even then; I remember a number of priests and nuns showed up to offer their support when he was in a precarious position over his indiscretion in the Phoenix Park. I remember hearing now and then of the Christian Social Party in the early 80s, but only vaguely and I don't know who was behind it. I think the CLARION - a very odd paper which also published Moonie anti-communist material and stuff from TRadition, Family, Property (TFP) - published some of their material, but again I can't recollect details. Daniel McCarron stood as a Christian Democrat in Dublin South Central in 1981 and got a derisory vote, and I think he had some link to Sean Dublin Bay Loftus, but whether there was any connection between them and the Christian Social Party I don't know.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 14, 2012 17:35:23 GMT
Maynooth was in Emmet Stagg's constituency and a lot of stuff like the photocopy was in circulation there as Stagg was trying to build up a profile in the '87 and '89 elections.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Mar 20, 2012 14:53:32 GMT
There also would have been still a high number of students for missionary societies in Maynooth - Columbans, SMAs, SVDs and Kiltegans - who are now in the Kimmage Missionary Institute. There would have been strong liberation theology focus here - some of these were even members of the student Labour Party cumann before the more anti-clerical element drove them out. Likewise, a lot of junior professed sisters who were students and lay theology students were involved in social justice oriented projects. I think that seeing this flyer shows how much Maynooth changed rather than how much Stagg changed - it was pure cynicism on his part.
But he blindsided elements within the college - clerical and lay - who were sympathetic to the Workers' Party, so there may have been a positive to this cynicism.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 21, 2012 13:46:00 GMT
Was Stagg a member of Militant Tendency? I once remember a rumour he was going to join the Workers' Party or one of its successor groups.
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