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Fatima
May 4, 2011 0:01:09 GMT
Post by flynncreek on May 4, 2011 0:01:09 GMT
".....something quite remarkable happened: there was a small community of Jesuit Fathers living in a presbytery near the parish church, which was situated less than a mile away from detonation point, well within the radius of total devastation. And all eight members of this community escaped virtually unscathed from the effects of the bomb. Their presbytery remained standing, while the buildings all around, virtually as far as the eye could see, were flattened." Wow! What a miracle! Why on earth NOT put lots and lots of emphasis on Our Lady of Fatima's protection of the priests from atomic destruction.... I am with you! Proclaim the good news. Tell all what God has done for us. If people have problems with God not saving others, then they don't truly understand that he is God and we need to trust that the decisions he makes are perfect decisions...because he is God. Any imperfections are the result of human sinners.
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Fatima
Jul 20, 2011 16:22:14 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Jul 20, 2011 16:22:14 GMT
Here is a CATHOLIC HERALD blogpost outlining the harm done by the dodgy theories about Fatima peddled by Fr Nicholas Gruner and Fr Paul Kramer, and why these theories are mistaken and misleading. (THose who wish to see the Grunerite version of events will find it in the combox below.) This arises because Daphne McLeod's PRO ECCLESIA ET PONTIFICE conference, looking for a speaker after Cardinal Burke cancelled at short notice (apparently he thought some criticisms of the English bishops' dismal record on Catholic education were excessive - though this IMHO was a fault of diplomacy rather than substance) picked up Fr Kramer and Robert Sungenis (for whom google the phrase "Sungenis and the Jews"). The row over this choice of speakers led to the conference being canceled. Having browsed in Fr Kramer's writings, I note that he and Fr Gruner start from the assumption that it is for those who criticise their dodgy theories to disprove them, rather than the other way round, and that the Pope is not entitled to the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. I am sorry to see Daphne McLeod's good work being caught up with such people - one of the lamentable effects of the long record of episcopal neglect is that so many of the faithful, who can no longer feel the trust they should be entitled to feel in their pastors, fall victim to cranks and charlatans of this type. www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/06/27/fatima-conspiracy-theories-are-damaging-the-church/
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Fatima
Oct 18, 2012 11:39:44 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Oct 18, 2012 11:39:44 GMT
Fr Paul Kramer and his associates have held another conference in Cork, last weekend. Last year their conference was in Bantry, this time it was in the city. Speakers (besides Kramer himself) were a SSPX priest, Fr David Sherry, the editrix of CATHOLIC TRUTH (I think this refers to the Catholic Truth Scotland website, which has a long history of promoting Kramer, Gruner and other dodgy trads) and one Joe McConnell, who runs the "Cork Fatima Centre" and appears to have organised the event. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole - I think it will only serve to lead people astray into a sort of Catholic gnosticism claiming exclusive possession of the "real" message of Fatima. Any thoughts?
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 3, 2017 16:25:54 GMT
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Fatima
Jun 3, 2017 19:40:04 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Jun 3, 2017 19:40:04 GMT
Grunerism is like a computer virus, once let loose it's very hard to contain. BTW I wonder is there any overlap between it and "Vladimir Putin - The New Constantine", an attitude which also appeals to many trads looking for a silver bullet.
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Fatima
Jun 3, 2017 19:48:29 GMT
Post by Young Ireland on Jun 3, 2017 19:48:29 GMT
Grunerism is like a computer virus, once let loose it's very hard to contain. BTW I wonder is there any overlap between it and "Vladimir Putin - The New Constantine", an attitude which also appeals to many trads looking for a silver bullet. I'm not sure. I think it might be in some cases, but I do think that the two are often mutually distinct - after all Grunerism depends on the assumption that Russia has not been consecrated as Our Lady requested, which would make any support of Putin before then contradictory, as it would imply that things have improved in Russia. Then again, these things do not always follow a logical course.
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Fatima
Jun 11, 2017 8:58:30 GMT
Post by barracuda on Jun 11, 2017 8:58:30 GMT
I am not sure why Fr Gruner generates such hostility. Let's examine what this priest has done during his life. Firstly he has tried to bring the message of Fatima & its urgency to lay people (and bishops & priests). Nothing wrong with that since Fatima has been largely ignored except for occasional pilgrimages here & there. His biggest "crime" seems to be that he holds to the idea that the consecration of Russia has not been properly done & that the world will suffer the conseqences. The present world crisis would seem to support this. Now I happen to agree with him, not that I am a grunerite ? ! whaterever that means, but doing my own research into the consecration issue . Neither is he alone in that idea. But even if he were wrong in that position he takes ( which of course I don't believe), what harm is he doing in advocating rosaries & devotion to the Immaculate heart of Mary & the devotion of the 5 first Saturdays all on his website www.fatima.org He doesn't just concentrate on the consecration question.
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Fatima
Jun 18, 2017 18:01:06 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Jun 18, 2017 18:01:06 GMT
First of all, Barracuda, your research apparently doesn't stretch to noticing that Fr Gruner died two years ago. (His activities are being carried on by his allies such as Fr Paul Kramer.) Second, what is wrong with Fr Gruner's position is that his advocates treat his interpretation of "the message of Fatima" as the only one possible and denounce even other Fatima advocates who disagree with them. Grunerites also take the view that it is up to others to disprove their interpretation, and treat anyone who dissents (including the late Sr Lucia) as being in bad faith. Finally, Fr Gruner treated his interpretation of Fatima as authorising him to ignore direct orders from his bishop to return to reside and take up his duties in his diocese of ordination. That's a matter of basic clerical discipline - and remember that one fundamental means of assessing sanctity is the person's willingness to submit to legitimate orders and display humility.
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Fatima
Oct 22, 2017 20:14:09 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Oct 22, 2017 20:14:09 GMT
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Fatima
Nov 30, 2017 22:19:53 GMT
Post by hibernicus on Nov 30, 2017 22:19:53 GMT
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Fatima
Dec 13, 2017 5:22:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 5:22:35 GMT
Perhaps because some people will say that if God intervened to protect the Jesuits, why did He not intervene to protect the rest of the population, many of whom were no doubt equally worthy of protection. God of course has His own reasons for what He does (and I think it quite likely the survival of the Jesuits was a miracle) but we should be wary in making claims. The Sacre Coeur basilica in Paris apparently has a bronze plaque showing how during the war bombs fell in a semi-circle around the basilica but did not hit it. I hate to take Christopher Hitchens seriously, but he has a point when he says in one of his screeds that this claim implies that God diverted the bombs from the basilica onto the densely-populated surrounding areas, thereby causing many civilian casualties. This issue does not really arise in Nagasaki, since the people under the bomb would have died whether or not the Jesuits perished also, but it illustrates that it such events strike different people in different ways and it can be counterproductive to place too much emphasis on them. Necessarily, it was not because they were Jesuits, it was because they were living the message of Fatima, as they stated. It truly was a miraculous testimony to the power of the Rosary and that the Immaculate Heart of Mary, will triumph in the end but also, at every step along the way.
One of the three visionaries of Fatima, Sr. Lucia, told Fr. Fuentes in 1957: “Father, the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that we are in the last times of the world but she made me understand this for three reasons. The first reason is because she told me that the Devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Virgin. And a decisive battle is the final battle where one side will be victorious and the other side will suffer defeat. Hence from now on we must choose sides. Either we are for God or we are for the Devil. There is no other possibility.
“The second reason is because she said to my cousins as well as to myself that God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are the Holy Rosary and Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies which signify that there will be no others. “The third reason is because in the plans of Divine Providence, God always, before He is about to chastise the world, exhausts all other remedies. Now, when He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever then, as we say in our imperfect manner of speaking, He offers us with a certain trepidation the last means of salvation, His Most Holy Mother. It is with a certain trepidation because if you despise and repulse this ultimate means we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven because we will have committed a sin which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Spirit. This sin consists of openly rejecting with full knowledge and consent, the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother. We have recorded through many centuries of Church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates, by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His Most Holy Mother, how Our Lord Jesus Christ has always defended the honor of His Mother.” Sr. Lucy’s interview with Fr. Fuentes, quoted in The Whole Truth About Fatima by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, Buffalo, NY:Immaculate Heart Publications, Vol. 3, p. 503 ff.
They had genuine devotion to the Immaculate heart of Mary and saying the Rosary everyday, this is why they were not harmed. Our Lady protects her children.
Ecclesiasticus 4:17-18 [17] If he trust to her, he shall inherit her, and his generation shall be in assurance. [18] For she walketh with him in temptation, and at the first she chooseth him.
Hiroshima Bomb amazing story www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqb2igFYt_U
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Fatima
Dec 13, 2017 5:30:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 5:30:49 GMT
BTW, Russia, in fact, was consecrated by Pope Pius XII, but it was done late.
Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952: “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…”
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/consecration-russia-fatima-lucy/
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 1, 2024 13:34:19 GMT
Before I start this, let me first affirm that though I believe in the apparitions of Fatima, I accept that this is private revelation and not binding on any Catholic. I also find that many devotees of Fatima are stuck in tow phrases "Russia will spread her errors throughout the world" which had a lot of traction during the Cold War and "fashions will arise which are offensive to Our Lord", which is a red rag to traditionalists, who gravitate to Fatima. I am not quoting these literally and I don't have a proper exegesis of the original Portuguese. It's the bit on Russia I want to address here.
I suppose it was due to Fatima that I developed a particular interest in Russia, in her history and literature and her specific form of Christianity (I know a bit about Russian Orthodoxy and somewhat less about Old Belief). Not withstanding that while the Soviet regime pervaded, my sympathy was totally with Catholic Lithuania. I do think the idea that Russia spread her errors throughout the world was very real, except I think the left wingers in the west have gone way beyond anything tolerated in Russia. I also think the Russian Orthodox Church has aligned itself far too closely with the Russian state.
Lots of things have happened in the past decade and a half but the invasion of Ukraine probably woke us all up to lots of unpleasant realities, one of which was how much we took peace for granted. They do say however that the first casualty in war is the truth. I don't want to compare the west with Russia, but the interaction of the west has been problematic too. I think there should have been an urgency to reach a settlement, however unpalatable, immediately where it seems that some western elements believe that a proxy war in Ukraine could be sustained indefinitely. Well, it is clear that this is not the case and also Ukraine cannot hold out against Russia for much longer. I don't believe there should be a Russian attitude towards bellicosity after the Ukrainian experience, but a lot of geopolitical commentators are coming to a very different conclusion.
For other reasons I don't believe that China is in a position to cause trouble in the Pacific, but there is a strong suggestion that there may be a confrontation between China and the US in the Pacific over Taiwan in the next year or two. I hope that doesn't happen. If this is the case, Russia will have a free hand in Europe.
I have an interest in defence and I have been reading about the states of both the US and British armed forces which are perhaps adequate for peacetime but are not on a war footing. I don't believe the German Bundeswehr is much better. I have heard the French defence forces are in better shape, as are those of Poland and the Baltic States, but that's as much as I know. There is a concerted effort in this country to bring us into NATO, but the Irish Defence Forces have seen a collapse in both numbers and morale in the past decade and wokism is seriously debilitating. Right now, I believe neutrality to be the wiser course, a case of the better part of valour is discretion. I am hoping that the warnings of Russia attacking NATO's eastern borders while the US is engaged in the Far East is alarmism and school boy fantasy. However, it strikes me that this is a case where the message of Fatima is necessary, that we need to say the rosary for peace, that we need to offer the sacrifices demanded by our daily duties and otherwise live the message. Not in the expectation that we will be protected in the event of a direct nuclear hit, but certainly out of hope that there can be peace.
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Fatima
Feb 1, 2024 22:34:25 GMT
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Post by maolsheachlann on Feb 1, 2024 22:34:25 GMT
Do you think Russia aspires to the actual annexation/occupation of Ukraine? I'm dubious about this. (You didn't suggest this in your post, I'm just curious.)
The sense I get is that Russia genuinely wanted to occupy the parts it considers Russian and neutralise the perceived threat of Ukraine as a launching pad for Western invasion.
I personally just hope for the killing to end soon.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 2, 2024 15:32:39 GMT
Personally, I agree with you. I don't think either Russia or China have the appetite for war. But the sort of articles I have been reading by seasoned foreign and security correspondents suggest otherwise and it's scary to think about. I just hope we are right and they are wrong.
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