Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Mar 20, 2024 17:13:55 GMT
Hmm. I didn't expect such a negative impression of ICKSP. That's certainly not the impression I get of the Institute everywhere. I have no personal experience.
There is a certain amount of skepticism towards the Institute in international traditional circles. A lot is directed at Father Wach; well, you really have to ask why the Institute has had the same superior general since 1990 when most of the others have changed since then. What's more serious is that the academic standards in Gricigliano (Institute seminary in the Florence archdiocese) are not generally believed to be stellar. In the Irish context, the Institute have brought a very French from traditionalism and they don't show much respect for Irish traditions.
I'm not used to much of anything in the US. I did live there during university quite a few years ago, but I've spent more time in Ireland (Counties Meath, Kilkenny, and Kerry, with work in Dublin) than in the US. The only TLM I've been to in Ireland was celebrated by a hermit priest who emerged on some Sundays to say Mass in Navan, and I haven't been apart of any parish community in the US, other than the university chaplaincy. To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed by American Catholicism, whether at the parish level or otherwise. It's an unfortunate export. But that's another thread.
Father David Jones, lives in Duleek; says Sunday and holyday Mass in Johnstown where Father Michael Cahill is parish priest (there's also Syro-Malabarese liturgy in the same church). That has an impressive congregation in size for it's location, but after the last Gospel, they all go their separate ways, which is the rule in Ireland. When the traditional Mass was moveed in to St Kevin's Church in Harrington St in Dublin, the late Kieron Wood petitioned Father Deighan to have teas and coffees in a refreshment area in the church building after Mass, but this was resisted.
I'm now in Canada, with plans of returning to Ireland. The TLM parishes that I've been to in Canada have been quite remarkable in how diverse they are, in terms of not only race but of native language, age, class/income, with single people and families and elderly couples, etc. The same is true of the Ordinariate. I've read on this forum that the TLM in Ireland attracts mainly those of a higher socioeconomic class, which is surprising to me. That hasn't been my experience in Canada, and actually it wasn't my experience with the hermit priest, but that's a small sample size. On the other hand, the typical NO Mass in Ireland is a far less gruesome thing than in Canada (which imports its liturgy mainly from our southern neighbour).
Edit: I should add that the above has much to do with Canadian demographics in particular parts of Canada (at least as far as race and language and nationality are concerned). So that's not a slight to the Irish Church in any way.
Edit: I should add that the above has much to do with Canadian demographics in particular parts of Canada (at least as far as race and language and nationality are concerned). So that's not a slight to the Irish Church in any way.
I wouldn't believe there's a lot of diversity in Irish congregations, but they do draw visitors from abroad.