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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Aug 13, 2009 9:26:17 GMT
Dublin Archdiocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 10.30 am, Solemn High Mass, St Kevin’s Church, Harrington St, Dublin 8. Celebrant: Very Rev Father Gerard Deighan, Adm.
Limerick Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – Mass, St. Patrick’s Church, Dublin Road, Limerick. Celebrant: Rev Father Wulfran Lebocq, ICRSS
Dublin Archdiocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 11.30 am, Mass, St Joseph’s Chapel, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow. Celebrant: Very Rev Father Seán Smith, C.C.
Derry Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 12 pm, Mass, St. Columba’s Church (Long Tower), Derry BT48 6TJ. Celebrant: Very Rev Father Roland Colhoun, Adm.
Meath Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 2.30 pm, Mass, St Patrick’s Church, Slane, Co Meath followed by devotions at Ladyswell on the grounds of Slane Castle. Celebrant: Rev Father David Jones, O.Praem. (Organised by Ecclesia Dei Ireland)
Raphoe Diocese: Saturday, August 15 - 4 pm Mass. Cathedral of Ss Colmcille & Eunan, Letterkenny, Co Donegal. Celebrant: Father Joseph Briody, CC.
Down & Connor Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, 4 pm – Solemn High Mass, St. Patrick’s Church, 199 Donegall Street, Belfast BT1 2FL. Celebrant: Rev Father Martin Graham, C.C.
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Post by guillaume on Aug 16, 2009 6:46:06 GMT
Alaisdair, this was quite encouraging. I hope some of the readers of this Forum was able to attend some of those celebrations to honor Our Lady. Meanwhile I read the similar post on the famous (and brilliant) blog Rorate Caeli, and I noticed two comments :
Anonymous said...
I see that the Irish bishops continue to play their puerile games. They have been allowing one-off special Masses here, there, and everywhere since S.P. was published in 2007. Meanwhile, they are among the VERY WORST offenders against the HOLY FATHER on this. Some of their most important citieshave no every-Sunday T.L.M., including Cork, Derry, Waterford, Wexford, and Belfast. There has been almost NO PROGRESS under S.P. in Ireland. Even in the case of Killala, where the P.C.E.D. slapped down their bishop months ago over this, there has been no real compliance.
Frankly, the Pope should fire the lot of them. For all their howls of protest over the S.S.P.X, the liberal bishops of Germany have been MUCH mroe co-operative than is this batch of liberals in Ireland.
P.K.T.P.
14 August, 2009 18:58 Anonymous said...
Anyone know of an EF mass near Ballybrack?. I'm going to visit my brother next week and am frankly dreading it. The masses I've been to in Ireland are even worse than some of the stuff I've seen in London. Even a half decent NO will do.
15 August, 2009 13:04
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Aug 17, 2009 10:26:23 GMT
Bonjour Guillaume,
Et ca va maintenant?
I don't like to tell the second Anon that the nearest EF Mass to Ballybrack is St John's, Mounttown, but St Kevin's, Harrington St is a quick run on the bus or DART and Newtownmountkennedy is not that far away by car (though unfortunately not on Sundays - yet).
The first anon is not anonymous. It is Peter Karl T. Perkins of the Canadian province of British Columbia who is showing his usual ignorance of local conditions and circumstances with a poor command of Irish geography (though he has improved a bit on the last time). For some reason or other he thinks Wexford and Waterford are major cities. Well, Waterford is the fifth largest city in the Irish Republic and has the seventh highest concentration of Catholic population on the island, but Wexford, though a sizable town with a mediaeval tradition, is medium sized by Irish standards. I'll come back to them later.
The process of getting the Mass into the bigger urban areas in Ireland has been slow and painstaking - and made complicated in Belfast and Derry because previous indult Masses disappeared. But let me state clearly - and I don't care who contradicts me on this - the problem of with the implementation of Summorum Pontificum in Ireland, as with the problem of the implementation of Ecclesia Dei Adflicta in the latter years, was not the Irish bishops. Yes - there were a minority of Irish bishops who dragged their heels and some who were hostile - but the majority of Irish bishops are, at worst, indifferent. On this basis, suggestions the Pope should fire the lot of them is unwelcome hyperbole from someone conveniently resident overseas.
There are a minority of Irish bishops who are positive - The Archbishops of Tuam and Dublin (though Diarmuid Martin is patently cynical in this generosity - who cares?), the Bishops of Limerick, Derry, Ossory, Cork & Ross, Meath and Raphoe would all rank as generous. The fact that there isn't an every Sunday Mass in Cork is due to the shortage of available active clergy in this diocese on Sunday morning rather than the Bishop who gave agreement in principal to an every Sunday Mass a long time ago. The Bishop of Limerick gave a similar commitment even earlier, to the LMSI in Limerick in 2001 and has since canonically erected the Institute of Christ the King in that diocese, so the only barrier to a daily traditional Mass in Limerick is the huge demand on Institute priests already, but this will happen eventually. Anybody in the business of looking for trad Masses in Ireland would tell you no bishop is more pro-TLM than Séamus Ó hEigeartaigh in Doire Colm Cille (nothing to do with Columbus, Michael) aka Derry and libelously referred to as Londonderry (especially by creeps who list Masses in 'Northern Ireland' under the heading of 'United Kingdom Masses' - from an ecclesiastical point of view neither entity exists). Mgr O hEigeartaigh has been given hell on the matter by a number of influential priests in his own diocese, especially those heavily involved in charismatic and Cursillo circles. The Bishop has said TLM more frequently than any other Irish bishop and has paid for some of his priests to train for the Mass, but to date Father Roland Colhoun is the only one to do so publicly (and at present there is a TLM almost every day in Derry's Long Tower parish). Also in the north, there has been a showing in the Dromore diocese in Newry, which is the third highest Catholic population in Northern Ireland and is also only across the border from Dundalk which after Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford and Drogheda, is the seventh highest concentration of Catholics in the Republic.
There is a problem in regard to the North, which spills over the border, which people ought to be aware of - and this has already come up on the Ecumenism thread. The Church'es number one priority in Ireland - if we judge from the current Apostolic Nuncio and his predecessor - is the Peace Process and if we believe the Phoenix magazine, this is a major reason why Mary McAleese is the head of state holding the record for visiting B16. The conclusion we can draw from this is 1. the Holy See is not going to take action against a diocese which is otherwise in reasonable order (eg Down & Connor) and pulling its weight in regard to the Church'es over-riding objective (eg - it is being sufficiently ecumenical while maintaining a semblance of orthodoxy - this is true of Down & Connor and Dromore); 2. the Holy See is going to go into contortions to ensure they are not applying one law for these dioceses and another for everyone else, making the Killala episode as extraordinary as the EF Mass itself. Furthermore, the episode between Cardinal Innocenti and the late Bishop O Súilleabháin of Kerry formed a negative precedent which the Killala case neutralised but has not erased. For Ireland to have the assurance that the Holy See will act, we need a follow-up to the Killala case, but it would be much, much better to achieve things without Roman intervention. This last point is a lesson that everybody concerned needs to learn. But in regard to the North, I am personally not happy with what I observe in Belfast, but I reserve judgement on the matter. I am more in favour of lay initiative than clerical or episcopal initiative and what happened in Belfast was that the diocese took the Mass in Belfast out of the laity's hands, I believe prematurely, as the aim was to do in Belfast as was done in Cork - to get a Sunday Mass with the objective that it should be every week soon. But I don't know the designs of Bishop Traenor so I am prepared to be optimistic. This is a tactic as much as a personality trait. Optimistic people are less likely to get frustrated with their ordinaries and other clerics they deal with than the pessimitic and are more likely to keep their better faces without doing something stupid. Both optimism and pessimism can be self-fulfilling objectives. However, if we are true to our faith in the EF Mass, we will fulfill our objectives, so there is no need to treat the form of Mass as a type of social welfare entitlement.
If I address the bishops who have not been generous - most of them are gone and the current Bishop of Clogher is going. I constantly lambaste Bishop Kirby of Clonfert for not allowing the Mass in his diocese, but I am only aware anectdotally of a request put to Mgr Kirby about ten years ago. Most bishops in Ireland have either received no spontaneous correspondence from faithful in their diocese seeking the Mass or if they did, it came from isolated individuals acting alone. Some have receieved aggressive type requests calling all sorts of plagues down on them. In the case of Killala, the PCED acted as they became aware of a move within the diocesan Council of Priests to stifle the Mass in the diocese. Killala has less people than any other Irish diocese save Clonfert and it only has one priest in the diocese who is willing and able to say the Mass. The west of Ireland is a wasteland (and I note Peter Perkins isn't aware that Galway is a sizeable city) with only two priests in the entire province declaring an openess to say the Mass. Against this, the Bishops of Elphin (which has the second largest town in the province, Sligo, which is considerable larger than Wexford) and of Galway have given permission in principle for Masses widely available than is already the case. The military chapel in Galway City is a very good location, but things will not improve until there is at least one priest in the diocese in a position to say the Mass. The only thing I am aware of is that this is being worked on. In the Tuam Archdiocese, there is also permission in principle for monthly Mass at Our Lady's Shrine in Knock which also can't be realised for lack of priests. If the biggest problem in the North is the Peace Process mentality, the biggest problem in the West is the appalling lack of clergy.
In the south and east, this relative problem of lack of priests is not quite as bad. In Ossory, for example, one priest says the Sunday Mass. This is an extremely delicate position and one would hope it would be addressed. The situations in Dublin (which includes Wicklow in the ecclesiastical context) and Meath have improved due to more priests available and this is having a knock on effect (for non-Irish readers, the rest of Ireland does not necessarily follow Dublin and Dublin, so central to everything in Ireland has such a sense of it own importance that it can be quite remote from the rest of Ireland and the Dublin chaplaincy might as well be on Mars as in Dublin as far as the rest of the country is concerned). The situation in the Kildare and Leighlin diocese improved as the Bishop personally payed the airfares of an FSSP priest to fly over to Newbridge, but this was not appreciated by some very vocal trads in the diocese, though others have graciously accepted this. The most delicate position in the Leinster province is in the Ferns diocese where a petition is underway. None was presented until very recently when Fr Brady's health necessitated it. Now the urgency of the petitioners is alleviated by a remarkable recovery. However, the situation in Wexford needs to be addressed and this should be done sooner rather than later. The faithful in the diocese who want the Mass need to do this responsbibly.
I have dealt with Cork and Limerick above. Waterford is the centre of the highest concentration of Catholics without a regular traditional Mass on the island of Ireland. There is only one reason why this is the case. There has never been a request from traditionally motivated people in Waterford City to the Bishop and until this happens, this will be the case. The Bishop has no problem allowing the Mass during retreats in Mount Mellaray in the diocese (which contrary to the reports on New Liturgical Movement, is not a hospitable environment: the Abbot Emeritus of Mellaray is currently Abbot Primate of the Order of Cistercians of Strict Observance, Dom Éamonn FitzGerald and he has tried to put the brakes on Mariawald, the German Cistercian abbey, becoming trad. Not something Shawn Tribe checked out). I hope the situation in Waterford turns around soon. But as a psychologist might say, change must come from within.
I have one observation regarding the overall situation in Ireland and that is the apparant indifference of the FSSP to Ireland. It seems remarkable that there can be an FSSP priest can be based in Finland and serve Estonia, where Catholics are very thin on the ground and Ireland is ignored except for a priest flying over to Newbridge on a monthly basis. I am hopeful that permanent ICRSS presence in Limerick will have a knock on effect in Killaloe, Cashel & Emly, Kerry and Galway. But Irish traditionalists have long been asking for an FSSP base in Ireland too with little avail as of yet. An FSSP presence would have revolutionised things a long time ago.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Aug 17, 2009 11:14:17 GMT
I have two observations on Al's exposition above.
First, it is perfectly correct to say that Ireland doesn't necessarily follow Dublin's lead. The erection of a chaplaincy in Dublin has had little or no impact on the rest of Ireland, not even on those parts of the Dublin Archdiocese outside the county of Dublin.
Secondly, what's with the FSSP? How many Catholics are there in Helsinki? How many in Talinn? Even if you count all of Finland, Estonia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland together you don't get more Catholics there than in a small Irish city. So why are any of these prioritised over Ireland. I also fear, per discussion under the 'Kildare & Leighlin' thread (which got very hot once upon a time between Braveheart and Monkeyman), that Newbridge is too small for an FSSP apostolate and that it is both too near to and too far from Dublin to be an alternative apostolate. But I think if, as Al suggests, that there is indigenous opposition to the apostolate in the diocese, it may spell the end of FSSP ventures in Ireland full stop. It is the only FSSP apostolate here we have so we better look after it.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 17, 2009 11:19:02 GMT
MR. Perkins I suspect is writing from a SSPX perspective or similar. Many SSPX and other schismatic groups seem to take the view that half a loaf is worse than no bread in order to justify their continuing disobedience.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Aug 17, 2009 14:18:34 GMT
Let's hold Mr Perkins' typically ill-informed comments up to the light: Almost no progress in Ireland since SP?
The eve of Summorum Pontificum in Ireland was like this:
Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo;
Weekly: St Audoen's Dublin (Sunday & Holyday); Bruckless, Donegal (Sundays);
Monthly: Ss Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday); St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); and University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday).
That was then, this is now:
Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; St Kevin's, Dublin;
Weekly: Bruckless, Co Donegal (Sundays); Stamullen, Co Meath (Sundays); Kilkenny City (Sundays); Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow (Saturdays & Holydays);
Twice monthly: St Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday);
Monthly: St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday); Newbridge, Co Kildare (2nd Sunday); St Paul's, Falls Rd, Belfast (1st Saturday); Dominicans, Tralee (3rd Sunday); Glengoole, Co Tipperary (1st Thursday); Duleek, Co Meath (1st Friday);
Bi-monthly: Poor Clares, Newry (1st Sunday of every 2nd month);
Holy days: Long Tower, Derry;
Quarterly: Military Chapel, Galway; Ardagh, Co Mayo.
So we can conclude that Peter Perkins is mistaken and that contrary to his suggestion, there has been progress in Ireland since Summorum Pontificum.
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Post by monkeyman on Aug 17, 2009 20:11:09 GMT
That geezer Perkins is I'm afraid in La La Land...there could be a variety of reasons for this...too little to do, bad social life and also hasn't British Colombia effectively legalised the use of cannabis?? Whatever the reason,Ireland and the implementation of SP is not in his area of expertise. Let's hold Mr Perkins' typically ill-informed comments up to the light: Almost no progress in Ireland since SP? The eve of Summorum Pontificum in Ireland was like this: Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; Weekly: St Audoen's Dublin (Sunday & Holyday); Bruckless, Donegal (Sundays); Monthly: Ss Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday); St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); and University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday). That was then, this is now: Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; St Kevin's, Dublin; Weekly: Bruckless, Co Donegal (Sundays); Stamullen, Co Meath (Sundays); Kilkenny City (Sundays); Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow (Saturdays & Holydays); Twice monthly: St Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday); Monthly: St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday); Newbridge, Co Kildare (2nd Sunday); St Paul's, Falls Rd, Belfast (1st Saturday); Dominicans, Tralee (3rd Sunday); Glengoole, Co Tipperary (1st Thursday); Duleek, Co Meath (1st Friday); Bi-monthly: Poor Clares, Newry (1st Sunday of every 2nd month); Holy days: Long Tower, Derry; Quarterly: Military Chapel, Galway; Ardagh, Co Mayo. So we can conclude that Peter Perkins is mistaken and that contrary to his suggestion, there has been progress in Ireland since Summorum Pontificum.
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Post by guillaume on Aug 18, 2009 7:50:39 GMT
Let's hold Mr Perkins' typically ill-informed comments up to the light: Almost no progress in Ireland since SP? The eve of Summorum Pontificum in Ireland was like this: Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; Weekly: St Audoen's Dublin (Sunday & Holyday); Bruckless, Donegal (Sundays); Monthly: Ss Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday); St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); and University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday). That was then, this is now: Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; St Kevin's, Dublin; Weekly: Bruckless, Co Donegal (Sundays); Stamullen, Co Meath (Sundays); Kilkenny City (Sundays); Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow (Saturdays & Holydays); Twice monthly: St Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday); Monthly: St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday); Newbridge, Co Kildare (2nd Sunday); St Paul's, Falls Rd, Belfast (1st Saturday); Dominicans, Tralee (3rd Sunday); Glengoole, Co Tipperary (1st Thursday); Duleek, Co Meath (1st Friday); Bi-monthly: Poor Clares, Newry (1st Sunday of every 2nd month); Holy days: Long Tower, Derry; Quarterly: Military Chapel, Galway; Ardagh, Co Mayo. So we can conclude that Peter Perkins is mistaken and that contrary to his suggestion, there has been progress in Ireland since Summorum Pontificum. Yes, it is better. It is not as flourishing as I hope but it is better. Patience, mother of all virtues...
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Post by guillaume on Aug 18, 2009 8:21:16 GMT
Cher Alaisdair, oui ça va et toi ?
Well, regarding Wexford this is a bit inaccurate : The most delicate position in the Leinster province is in the Ferns diocese where a petition is underway. None was presented until very recently when Fr Brady's health necessitated it. Now the urgency of the petitioners is alleviated by a remarkable recovery. However, the situation in Wexford needs to be addressed and this should be done sooner rather than later. The faithful in the diocese who want the Mass need to do this responsbibly.
A petition had been underway some time ago now. I had been in contact with a letter - dated just after the publication of the Motu Proprio - from a lady requesting the TLM to Bishop Brennan, under the terms of SP, with a list of names which contains around 40 people (lots of families) and so forms a "stable group". I do not know, though, if this "group" is the same as the Coolcot faithful. This letter was presented to me by a Franciscan priest from the fairy in Wexford town. This letter was sent to this priest by Bishop Brennan who was asking him if he can honour the demand. Allas, some confusions occurred and the demand never meet. However, following this, I reckon Wexford - despite his size, has a quite important stable group and - maybe - a place of worship within the friary. I personally rewrote to the Bishop regarding this situation with no answer, we say in French "une demande de non recevoir". I know that actually we do not need agreement or authorisation of the ordinary regarding celebration of the TLM. But personally, I do not know the priests well enough over here to ask them directly. We have to be frank and see things on a long term basis. Fr Brady's mass wont' last for ever.
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Post by guillaume on Aug 18, 2009 8:38:09 GMT
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Post by guillaume on Aug 18, 2009 9:23:13 GMT
THis guy persists (comment on the post in Rorate Caeli) : The following comment was made on the forum http://www.http://irishcatholics.proboards.com/index.cgi regarding Mr Perkins most recent outburst on Rorate Caeli about the Irish Churchs response vis á vis Summorum Pontificum.
"Let's hold Mr Perkins' typically ill-informed comments up to the light: Almost no progress in Ireland since SP?
The eve of Summorum Pontificum in Ireland was like this:
Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo;
Weekly: St Audoen's Dublin (Sunday & Holyday); Bruckless, Donegal (Sundays);
Monthly: Ss Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday); St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); and University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday).
That was then, this is now:
Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; St Kevin's, Dublin;
Weekly: Bruckless, Co Donegal (Sundays); Stamullen, Co Meath (Sundays); Kilkenny City (Sundays); Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow (Saturdays & Holydays);
Twice monthly: St Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday);
Monthly: St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday); Newbridge, Co Kildare (2nd Sunday); St Paul's, Falls Rd, Belfast (1st Saturday); Dominicans, Tralee (3rd Sunday); Glengoole, Co Tipperary (1st Thursday); Duleek, Co Meath (1st Friday);
Bi-monthly: Poor Clares, Newry (1st Sunday of every 2nd month);
Holy days: Long Tower, Derry;
Quarterly: Military Chapel, Galway; Ardagh, Co Mayo.
So we can conclude that Peter Perkins is mistaken and that contrary to his suggestion, there has been progress in Ireland since Summorum Pontificum."
17 August, 2009 16:36 Anonymous said...
On the last comments, I say, Bullocks! Look, the standard for the faithful is every-Sunday Masses (vide Article 5, S.P.). The one in Wexford is apparently gone. The daily Mass in Cork was cancelled a few years ago. It's hard to imagine having no every-Sunday T.L.M. in a City as important as Cork.
What are the most populous cities in Ireland?: Dublin, Cork, Derry, Belfast, Waterford, and Wexford [sic ! and Athlone then, Tullamore, Killarney, Kilkenny... ]How many of these have gained even their very first EVERY-SUNDAY Masses since July of 2007? Answer: zero. There is no every-Sunday Mass for Cork, not one for Waterford, none for Wexford, none for Derry, none for Belfast. The situation in Dublin has improved but our Mass was available on that basis before.
Mass on Third Tuesday and second Wednesdays and alternate Friday mornings are not able to form the faithful. The faithful are required to attend every Sunday and on the holydays. You can't base your Catholic life on occasinal Masses. [fair point ] I was unaware of the Sunday Mass at Kilkenny, as it is not listed at all on the website of the Latin Mass Society of Ireland. [well alaisdair ?]The only gain since 7.7.07 in terms of every-Sunday Mass has been the one in the Diocese of Meath.
Ireland has 26 dioceses. Only FIVE of these (19%) have the T.L.M. on the every-Sunday basis and, of these, only two are among the top ten Irish dioceses in terms of population (viz. Dublin & Meath). Before S.P. was published, there was a listed private every-Sunday Mass in the Diocese of Ferns (in Wexford). So we have an increase from four every-Sunday sees to five. We have still to see implemented the ruling of the P.C.E.D. for Killala. Where is it?
How does this compare with the situation in other countries? Not too well. Even in Protestant England, all but two of the 19 (89%) dioceses have the T.L.M. EVERY-SUNDAY. Not on alternate Tuesdays, not on Saturday mornings, but on Sundays. I note that there is nothing remotely anti-Irish in my sentiments. (This insinuation is from someone here who is reaching for it, having no evidence and no good arguements, as usual.) Anyone with a brain in his head knows that most of the faithful in England-and the bishops there--are of Irish stock too. It doesn't change the fact that there is a problem in Ireland. The Irish bishops of Ireland are ignoring S.P., whereas the mainly Irish bishops in England are not.
The last writer thinks he knows something. He knows the local situation but clearly has no way of compariing it to anything. In France, 83% of the faithful [4,5 % of the whole population is or pretends to be catholic ! Compare to Ireland, this is mini mini]have the old Mass every Sunday; in the U.S.A., it's 81%. 37 U.S. dioceses gained their first every-Sunday Mass since 2007. Even my pathetic country of Canada has made important gains (whoops, ban me for despising Canada). In both countries, the per centage of faithful living in those dioceses is over 93%. The only saving grace for Ireland is that a quarter of the faithful there are fortunate enough to live in Dublin.
Approving Masses on weekdays is virtually irrelevant. "Summorum Pontificum" makes provision in particular for regular Sunday Masses. Try reading Article 5 before blathering nonsense.
P.K.T.P [ my comments à la Father Z's blog]
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 18, 2009 11:20:24 GMT
I see Mr. Perkins still overlooks Galway and Sligo.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Aug 19, 2009 10:53:15 GMT
17 August, 2009 16:36 Anonymous said... On the last comments, I say, Bullocks! Look, the standard for the faithful is every-Sunday Masses (vide Article 5, S.P.). The one in Wexford is apparently gone. The daily Mass in Cork was cancelled a few years ago. It's hard to imagine having no every-Sunday T.L.M. in a City as important as Cork. Lovely language. But what does PKTP know about any of this. If we are applying the strict criterion of complete ecclesiastical approval for Masses neither Wexford or Cork qualify. The position of Fr Brady, regretably, is that of a suspended priest - though the suspension was unjust (and done very uncanonically) and his congregation prefer to wait for him to die rather than sort out a mess of their own making. In Cork, the late Fr Thomas Higgins was saying Mass privately in the SMA house everyday and this was tolerated by the diocese. In the case of Cork, no one took the trouble of trying to ensure continuity even as Fr Higgins got older and sicker. The standard applied was 'we'll cross that bridge when we come to it' and the bridge was never crossed. Cork only got going again when the LMSI found someone to take responsibility. As you are aware, Guillaume, only Fr Brady's illness kick started a petition in Wexford which you have commented on. And there's more - the late Fr Alan Wilders, even when he knew he was terminally ill with leukemia, did absolutely nothing to ensure continuity of his ministry in Islandeady, even though he was assured of the support of the LMSI and the Tuam Archdiocese. Islandeady has an excellent chaplain now, but he doesn't see any duty to the community in Islandeady, just to the school, so he is on a pro-longed summer vacation. This is the downside of an apostolate which equivocates about being just a school or a school and community as suits itself, but there are few trad Catholics in the school but many more coming to Mass in the community. Of course he is wrong there. Cities and towns in Ireland in order of Catholic population go something like this: Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Derry, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Bray, Drogheda, Dundalk, Lisburn, Newry, Craigavon, Kilkenny, Athlone, Wexford, Sligo, Clonmel, Omagh, Strabane. I should say that Tallaght with a population of 73,000 comes between Limerick and Galway in size, but I am including it in the Greater Dublin area. By extention, Bray could almost be listed in Dublin. I am surprised there are more Catholics in Lisburn than Newry and that there are so many in Craigavon. (All this could serve a separate thread). All of these except Wexford and Waterford, neither of which are as big as PP imagines registered an improvement. [/i] [ my comments à la Father Z's blog][/quote] Fine. Where are the petitions in respect of all these places? We know what's going on in Wexford and in the places with ongoing Masses less than every Sunday, but we have little evidence of petitioning where the Mass doesn't exist. A lot of Irish people are just waiting for this to happen.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 19, 2009 12:22:08 GMT
I think Irish trads are often very individualistic and don't realise the importance of institution-building. Is it a national characteristic? Is it that we lack initiative, or find it hard to subordinate ourselves and work together?
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Aug 20, 2009 8:55:25 GMT
Hibernicus has a point.
But what about the post on Rorate Coeli blog which says that the single stroke of bad luck which slowed progress in Ireland was Cardinal Innocenti telling the then Bishop of Kerry that he didn't have to allow petitions? Nothing happened in Ireland between then and 1998 when all was florishing overseas.
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