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Post by annie on Aug 13, 2017 18:39:33 GMT
The Iona Institute blog has a piece on the deliberate use of anti-Catholic blasphemy by "Repeal the 8th" types. www.ionainstitute.ie/does-pro-choice-hostility-to-religion-have-a-limit/I don't think the author quite gets how these people's minds work. They are using blasphemous imagery to assert the following: (1) The pro-life movement is so harmful, contemptible and unfounded that it cannot possibly be taken seriously or treated with respect. (2) The only reason anyone could believe such rubbish is because they have been hoodwinked/brainwashed by Catholicism. (Where Arlene Foster fits into this is another matter, but she can be ignored, along with any other inconvenient facts, for the purposes of pro-choice "reasoning".) (3) Therefore it is positively meritorious to insult and blaspheme Catholicism at every possible opportunity, in order to reinforce the message that it deserves only contempt, and incidentally that those who have the "courage" to transgress are inherently stronger and smarter and that the way to show your own strength and smartness is to do what they say without any unnecessary nonsense such as thought, manners, etc. This is the mindset of those Trots who yelled "Shame on you" at the March for Life, as if it was a cogent argument. They might as well yell "Flat Earth" and expect us to take their word for it. (Indeed, flat-earthism similarly appeals to a sense of defying the powers and asserting oneself as smarter than the vulgar many. The difference is that Una Mullaly probably will not be editing a flat-earth book anytime soon, though it would be no more nonsensical than some of the stuff she publishes in her column.) The abuse of images of Our Lady reveals the satanic claw behind this campaign. Our Lady revealed herself in Lourdes as the Immaculate Conception. There is allegedly a campaign on Facebook advocating for the abortion of Jesus. Every insult, even the vilest imaginable, are aimed at her and her Child by pro-aborts. They are seriously deranged and dangerous people who are out for blood, anyone's, but especially innocents. Our Lady asks us to pray and offer sacrifices for sinners. Jesus on the Cross said "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they are doing". Can we do any less? May the Holy Spirit put words in our mouths whenever we are called on to speak against evil.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Aug 13, 2017 18:57:35 GMT
I never heard of X saying that. That's awful. And I used to like X. [post modified by administrator]
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Post by Young Ireland on Aug 13, 2017 19:19:01 GMT
I never heard of X saying that. That's awful. And I used to like X. I've done a search on google just now to find out if X actually said that. There doesn't seem to be any mention of the comments at all, even on political boards, let alone a video. I do think that Annie ought to provide evidence of X making that statement if at all possible.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Aug 13, 2017 19:31:17 GMT
Yes, I did the same and came up blank.
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Post by Young Ireland on Aug 13, 2017 22:33:22 GMT
Annie, the thing is if you can't provide a link, then there is no evidence that X said such a thing. We need to be careful not to be making accusations without evidence to back them up as doing so could get Hibernicus in trouble or close down the board. I personally think that if you can't provide proof that X said that, you should edit that part out.
[Note: I have deleted a post in which Annie gives some details but not a link. I did this because the details might identify the person, which could have serious legal consequences. I am making this note in fairness to Annie, in case anyone thinks she did not try to meet the request to support her allegation -HIB.]
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Post by maolsheachlann on Aug 13, 2017 22:39:42 GMT
I can't help thinking it would be much more well known if X had said such a thing, especially [under those circumstances - post edited by moderator -HIB].
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Post by Young Ireland on Aug 13, 2017 22:48:50 GMT
Indeed, if anyone said that on live tv, there would be uproar and they would never be able to live it down. I know the media is hostile to Christians, but surely there would be a record of it on a forum thread or a complaint to the BAI or groups like HLI would have documented it. RTE would not have the ability to gag the whole internet if it were true.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 13, 2017 23:26:38 GMT
Annie, you have 24 hours to produce evidence of that comment - if not I will delete all references to it. As some of the other posters have pointed out, I have to be VERY careful with the material I allow to be posted on this board - it is easy to get into serious trouble. Remember memory is fallible and quotations can be cited out of context. This is no reflection on your good faith, but we have to be careful not to damage people's reputations unjustly and it is all too easy to make mistakes - I have done it myself in the past. The countdown starts NOW.
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Post by annie on Aug 14, 2017 0:13:49 GMT
Annie, you have 24 hours to produce evidence of that comment - if not I will delete all references to it. As some of the other posters have pointed out, I have to be VERY careful with the material I allow to be posted on this board - it is easy to get into serious trouble. Remember memory is fallible and quotations can be cited out of context. This is no reflection on your good faith, but we have to be careful not to damage people's reputations unjustly and it is all too easy to make mistakes - I have done it myself in the past. The countdown starts NOW. I don't have any evidence other than my own eyes and ears on the day. I was amazed and so disappointed in x. [It was a throwaway remark and X got away with it = I tried to pursue the matter but due to circumstances beyond my control have not been able to obtain further evidence so far - post edited by moderator -HIB.]
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 14, 2017 20:13:43 GMT
I have now amended the posts to remove details of the particular incident mentioned by Annie which would identify the person mentioned. In doing this I wish to state that I am not questioning Annie's good faith in any way, but since I cannot exclude the possibility that she may have misremembered or misunderstood what was said I have no option but to remove the references. Please bear in mind that our libel laws are very strict, so I have to err on the side of caution. Annie is still in contact with me by private message concerning this, and if there are any relevant developments the board will know.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 14, 2017 20:45:53 GMT
As regards the "Shame on you" shouts, one reason why they struck me is because pro-aborts are always denouncing advocacy of sexual morality in general and pro-life statements in particular as being a form of manipulation in which you seek power over others by manipulating their feelings of guilt. Obviously the Trots in this instance are projecting onto others what they do themselves. The point about shame-based attacks is that they lose all their force if the person attacked does not feel any guilt about their behaviour/beliefs; quite a lot of historic Catholic/Protestant polemics, for example, were misdirected in this respect because they were based on misinterpretation of said behaviour (e.g. Protestants denouncing Catholics for worshipping images when the Catholics knew well they were doing no such thing; Catholics assuming evangelicals must have no religious belief at all because they abominated certain Catholic religious practices for reasons which they sincerely believed were fundamental to Christianity). For that reason, the people who claim shame/guilt is merely a form of social manipulation engage in "consciousness raising" to convince them the behaviour in question is not questionable at all but should in fact be a source of pride. In one context this might involve reinventing "shamelessness" as "body positivity", as we see on the Mail Online sidebar and similar disreputable locations. HEre's another example of an attempt to glory in conduct which others would regard as shameful: EXTRACT Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when there are 500 or when there are 1,000. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person — with exceptions due to human weaknesses — has made us tough, and is a glorious chapter that has not and will not be spoken of. Because we know how difficult it would be for us if we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and rabble-rousers in every city, what with the bombings, with the burden and with the hardships of the war. If the Jews were still part of the German nation, we would most likely arrive now at the state we were at in 1916 and 17... END OF EXTRACT en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posen_speechesThe response to the Trots then cannot be to yell "Shame on You" because it won't work. The Trots are unreachable by this particular form of direct assault, and the middle ground whom we need to convince are being conditioned to see such exchanges as US intimidating THEM even when it's the reverse. Under the circumstances, shouting is only a form of venting to relieve our own feelings. What we need IMHO is as follows: (1) First to know and understand why we are right and they are wrong - to have inner confidence. This BTW was the implication of the term Sinn Fein for those who originally used it. (2) Pray and strengthen ourselves to be willing to stand up for the truth at the crucial moment whatever the consequences to ourselves. St Thomas More is a good patron in this context because of his combination of prudence and fortitude. (3) To be aware of the likely impact of our words and actions on others, and to do what is right in an unexpected way. Only surprise has any chance of breaking the self-created shells and letting the truth leak in. I know this has been my own experience on certain matters.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 14, 2017 21:12:41 GMT
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Post by maolsheachlann on Aug 14, 2017 22:00:36 GMT
As regards the "Shame on you" shouts, one reason why they struck me is because pro-aborts are always denouncing advocacy of sexual morality in general and pro-life statements in particular as being a form of manipulation in which you seek power over others by manipulating their feelings of guilt. Obviously the Trots in this instance are projecting onto others what they do themselves. The point about shame-based attacks is that they lose all their force if the person attacked does not feel any guilt about their behaviour/beliefs; quite a lot of historic Catholic/Protestant polemics, for example, were misdirected in this respect because they were based on misinterpretation of said behaviour (e.g. Protestants denouncing Catholics for worshipping images when the Catholics knew well they were doing no such thing; Catholics assuming evangelicals must have no religious belief at all because they abominated certain Catholic religious practices for reasons which they sincerely believed were fundamental to Christianity). For that reason, the people who claim shame/guilt is merely a form of social manipulation engage in "consciousness raising" to convince them the behaviour in question is not questionable at all but should in fact be a source of pride. In one context this might involve reinventing "shamelessness" as "body positivity", as we see on the Mail Online sidebar and similar disreputable locations. HEre's another example of an attempt to glory in conduct which others would regard as shameful: EXTRACT Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when there are 500 or when there are 1,000. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person — with exceptions due to human weaknesses — has made us tough, and is a glorious chapter that has not and will not be spoken of. Because we know how difficult it would be for us if we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and rabble-rousers in every city, what with the bombings, with the burden and with the hardships of the war. If the Jews were still part of the German nation, we would most likely arrive now at the state we were at in 1916 and 17... END OF EXTRACT en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posen_speechesThe response to the Trots then cannot be to yell "Shame on You" because it won't work. The Trots are unreachable by this particular form of direct assault, and the middle ground whom we need to convince are being conditioned to see such exchanges as US intimidating THEM even when it's the reverse. Under the circumstances, shouting is only a form of venting to relieve our own feelings. What we need IMHO is as follows: (1) First to know and understand why we are right and they are wrong - to have inner confidence. This BTW was the implication of the term Sinn Fein for those who originally used it. (2) Pray and strengthen ourselves to be willing to stand up for the truth at the crucial moment whatever the consequences to ourselves. St Thomas More is a good patron in this context because of his combination of prudence and fortitude. (3) To be aware of the likely impact of our words and actions on others, and to do what is right in an unexpected way. Only surprise has any chance of breaking the self-created shells and letting the truth leak in. I know this has been my own experience on certain matters. Is there not a danger of overthinking it, though? I worry that, if we DON'T shout, the "silent majority" simply decides not much is at stake or that we have decided to go silently into that good night. As for the Trots being unreachable, I'm not so sure. It's often occurred to me that Gay Pride festivals and slutwalks actually demonstrate shame, rather than pride-- an attempt to overcome shame. I do worry that calmness sends the wrong message.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Aug 14, 2017 22:01:45 GMT
The same is true of people bragging of their abortions on social media, I think.
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Post by Account Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 22:10:02 GMT
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