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Post by Noelfitz on Sept 25, 2008 20:33:39 GMT
Saintstephen
You quote from the NT, but you make no comment or ask no question.
Do you want to focus on any particular point?
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Post by Noelfitz on Oct 9, 2008 3:05:31 GMT
Inedifix
You wrotye:
How emphatic is the Bible on this issue? How many times in the Bible does God "reveal himself" as Father, Son and Holy Spirit? How many times does the Bible mention the words Trinity, or Triune?
These questions would take a long time to answer fully.
St Paul wrote:
" The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you."
The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), 2 Co 13:13.
In the NRSV of the Bible the words 'triune'or 'trinity' do not occur.
Catholicism is a religion that uses both the Bible and Tradition.
I believe that the word 'Trinity' was first used by Tertullian (died c. 225).
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Post by Noelfitz on Oct 9, 2008 10:01:56 GMT
Inedifix,
I am hugely impressed by your knowledge and interest in Christianity.
I agree with everything you wrote in your post.
In fact the first Council of the Church, Nicea 325, (as far as I know) discussed relationship between the Father and the Son (consubstantial with the Father), it was only at Chalcedon (in 451) that the Trinity was defined. It is impossible to understand the Trinity, one can only get a glimpse about what it means.
Up until the apologists (eg Justin who died in 165) the Church was not too interested in deep Greek philosophy or theology, it had more pressing concerns. However in the Didache ( which may date back to the 50s) one reads:
'Now concerning baptism, baptize as follows: after you have reviewed all these things, baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” in running water'. Michael William Holmes, The Apostolic Fathers : Greek Texts and English Translations (Updated ed.; Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books, 1999), 259.
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Post by Noelfitz on Oct 17, 2008 5:40:29 GMT
Inedifix You wrote: " I am almost entirely convinced"
What does this mean?
Is it something like " I am convinced" or "I am not convinced"?
Your signature gives us cause to ponder. That is why you contribute fruitfully here.
My answer would be that God is able, but not willing to prevent evil. Why? Who knows? God is the creator, we are creatures. "Who has known the mind of the Lord?"
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Post by hazelireland on Oct 27, 2008 9:40:22 GMT
I have to add my voice here in condemnation of the idea that atheists have no right to read into the bible.
The bible is a wonderful beautifully written book. You do not need to believe everything in it is true to feel that way. The language of it is poetic, its value as a historical document is high, its usefulness as an example of the historical development of morality in our culture is indispensable.
To suggest any group of people be denied the right to draw on it could not be more false. There is something for everyone to learn in a document of this nature. There is no onus to believe its contents to do so either, nor is there a requirement to think it is 100% right in all things before you can find some truths in it.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 5, 2008 1:12:36 GMT
Saintstephen's definition of godlessness as non-belief in the Trinity would imply that the OLd Testament Jews were godless since they did not believe in the Trinity, and that present-day Jews and Moslems are no closer to Christianity than atheists. This has not been the Church's teaching.
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Post by Inedifix II on Nov 9, 2008 23:21:34 GMT
Dear Inedifix, I make nothing up. Making stuff up is what you do best. Which should raise a genuine crisis of conscience for you, but clearly doesn't. I
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