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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Nov 10, 2010 11:44:21 GMT
This reminds me of the case of the Legion of Christ. Let me first state that there are as many good and honorable Legionaries as there are good members of Opus Angelorum. The Legion was founded by a megalomaniac; Opus Angelorum was founded on the pretext of bizarre revelations regarding angels and demons. Lives were damaged in both cases. It is difficult for an organisation to avoid some of the circumstances of its own foundation.
In these cases, perhaps suppression and re-foundation is the best course of action.
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Post by hibernicus on Nov 10, 2010 16:06:43 GMT
According to some of the commenters on Mark Shea's post here, the CDF has officially told people not to give names to their Guardian Angels (or to any angel other than Michael, Gabriel and Raphael, who are named in Scripture) and this prohibition is a direct response to the antics of the original Opus Angelorum. One or two of them also point out that this may cause problems in relation to angels who are named in Hebrew tradition but not directly in Scripture, and whose names have been used by Doctors of the Church such as Gregory the Great. (Uriel is the prime example - as I pointed out in another post, there is a window dedicated to him in St Peter and Paul's church in Cork.) This is slightly different from making up names wholesale as Ms Bitterlich appears to have done. markshea.blogspot.com/2010/11/things-i-never-knew.html
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 18, 2011 13:06:30 GMT
"Anne the Lay Apostle" the locutionist mentioned on the Catholic Voice thread, seems to have published several books of her utterances. Therse are on sale in the Dublin VERITAS shop and in some shops in Cork that I know of. I haven't looked into this yet and don't know if I ever shall, as life is short and I am busy - does anyone know more about this?
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Post by goldenfleece on Jan 31, 2011 15:07:36 GMT
Weird new movements...they often dovetail ...Does anyone remember that a man named Bonaventur Meyer ran a radio station during the Seventies and it closed due to lack of funding. He was still publishing material which really required a better English translator by the early Nineties. It was far more interesting than anything now heard on EWTN, but was very much against the Council. I learned the Prayer to Saint Michael in German from these broadcasts. Does anyone really follow ideas about victim souls here? I find the photographs in the books very disturbing. The subject as well as stigmata has an aura of strangeness...does anyone vouch to having met people who are undergoing such agony for God? I know a lot about people who claim to meet Jesus or His Mother when they are in hospital.It is very strange. There are also records of people meeting recognisable saints during church services-they are not seen by other people.I won't press for veracity but it is definite that these ideas often involve similar people in the end. I would posit that certain people fabricate devotions about the Child Jesus from well established oddities in places like Latin America. If I can be dismissive, the things alleged around Surbiton are probably such badly digested thinking and the idea of crucified children is a manically steered fantasy. If priests try to adjudicate such ideas, they can fall into traps. A seeres seemed to deceive even Father Fox of Fatima towards the end of his life. There is England long forgottn evidence of a man trying to turn his Anglo-Catholic parish into a visionary site. It is useful to watch how all this operates and how to gain skill at seeing sincerity turn rather sour. Thanks.
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Post by goldenfleece on Jan 31, 2011 15:18:07 GMT
Can I reply about Anne the Lay Apostle? I think these things come from similar pens and pencils. The people are trying to recapture a time before scandal when religion meant more than it does now because of the abuse. The banality of the messages I find so troubling...They seem to create themselves from randomly selected saints' names . I have seen material sold from Ireland that is definitely forged. It insults the dignity of Christ and only looks genuine. The Chinese were known to have done things like this inside Bible covers..It does not help the soul to keep these things around. Luxurious books about the Coredemptrix are a different matter but I was counselled by a good few priests not to keep them..They are studied insults to the true understanding of the Cross. It is scandalous that groups of monks trade in these things.
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Post by hibernicus on Jan 31, 2011 15:25:32 GMT
I daresaythere are real victim souls but the subject attrcts hysterics who wish to glorify themselves. I remember seeing books by Christina gallagher (for whom see that most interesting book IMMACULATE DECEPTION) showing her alleged stigmata, which came across as part of a rhetorical strategy to the effect that to doubt or question her was wiked and hurtful. A real mystic or visionary should accept investigation and not go in for such emotional blackmail.
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Post by goldenfleece on Jan 31, 2011 15:26:10 GMT
About Guardian Angels....naming them is part of the superstitious nonsense engendered by the Ewtn station...It does reverent Catholics no good and even confuses small children. The group called Opus Angelorum are shady...they don't even write addresses on their replies. The Vatican has outlawed them. Also the person called Dan Lynch who appears regularly on EWTN talking about Our Lady of America is a loquacious hoax. People more intimate with the details have published so saying. I wrote to Women of Grace telling them they may not have known about this. I think it is probably true. America, Ireland and France swim with these fellows...is it part of Dechristianisation ?
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Post by goldenfleece on Jan 31, 2011 15:41:41 GMT
Thanks for such charitable and stimulating reply Hibernicus...that's a good phrase "emotional blackmail" . We should all pray for the discernment of spirits...it is very interesting to watch one's religion turning rapidly into something bad , the moment these people are taken seriously. When you dispose of their literature, the very air feels fresher..I found this with all the silly stuff penned by Vassula Ryden. But she had previously deceived a nun about herself . The mesh is so hard to penetrate...They say all the right words..but ultimately they will not admit the efficacy of the Cross..."if I or the angel from Heaven preach another gospel" Saint Paul knew that such people would arrive and so did Our Lord. Anne the Lay Apostle ? There is something very bad about this , but I do not want to persist with it. Pray for discernment and it will become clear. Things about crying Madonnas with little children asking why and a room said to miraculously fill up with sacred host near a statue are simply so savagely rude to Catholics, they are surely from the Devil.They are insulting the very femininity of Mary ...again, real heresy makes a Christian feel unwell.
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Post by goldenfleece on Jan 31, 2011 16:10:52 GMT
This board is quite the most fascinating....There actually was a Catholic radio station broadcasting in Ireland illegally and filled with forgotten or contradicting devotions ? I thought I had dreamt all of this!About Anne the Lay Apostle...this use of that name and the idea that little girls are asking the Madonna why she is in tears...It is a bit crude and sinister...but they are being very insulting about Christ's Mother. If you investigate a miracle site it becomes horribly obvious that the Virgin's statue is making a rude gesture with her hand...These people have no faith-they do terrible things. I think it is a sort of illness that people like this Anne wish to make us think that God is an exemplary nothing..I won't say much more, but so much of these alleged locutions are the same.I don't know why bishops endorse them, but I found an ordinary monsignor recently effuse to me about the veracity of the Bayside rigmarole. The door opens and shuts similarly around Maria Valtorta.
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Post by goldenfleece on Jan 31, 2011 16:20:10 GMT
Maria Valtorta was not well...she suffered with a disease that at the time was beyond the therapies...it could be termed graphomanic...the idea that you are responsible for supplementing the gospel.Her production is an extension of this fixation. It needs to be classed as religious mania, but I am not sure that it is malign. People resemble her who have Asperger's syndrome as well as the peculiar phenomenon of childhood religiosity.Even clerics may do this sort of thing.She is not guilty of sin for being so.
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 1, 2011 15:08:10 GMT
Meditation on the Gospel and its implications, on why certain characters might have acted as they did etc can be a legitimate form of private meditation provided that it is treated as such. Maria Valtorta, I believe, claimed that the Evangelists' accounts were deficient and she had been appointed by God to supply the deficiencies; that's why she got put on the Index. Emotional distaste shoudl be taken into account but it is not sufficient to disqualify on its own. People and cultures are different - some will respond to highly emotional "italianate" forms of devotion; others will find them disturbing - some will respond to cerebral or highly-organised spiritualities and others will regard them as cold and remote.
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Post by goldenfleece on Feb 1, 2011 16:02:18 GMT
Anne the Lay apostle -it seemed to be piles of money sought out for these utterly meaningless conversations ...Do you know that a priest (of all people) was heard the other day recommending turgid tome about demons and abortion. He failed to mention the going rate for this-it was $800 per volume ! this is totally out of order...it expolits the poor and the religiously confused...Valtorta books are produced under her auspice, but I doubt if they ever cost so much. I find this too much to bear...Although it does limit the availability of said speculative rubbish to the prosperous middle classes. There's another poor fellow who phones this station, they don't even comprehend how his Asperger disease is maknig him into a fanatic. If we fail to understand the clear distinction between poetry and reality, we end like Germans under their fascism. This guy is sunk in the children's literature of Tolkien et al...He should be delivered of the obsession...religion is not a hobby or a hobby horse. At least his dulcet tone breaks the monotony of constant anti-abortionism and strange demands for reparation because there has been no reparation...Hmmm
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 3, 2011 11:46:15 GMT
I think the book about demons and abortion is Fr Eunteneur's recent tome. To be fair, that book is so expensive because it has been withdrawn by the publisher for reasons connected with Fr E's fall from grace - $800 was not the original retail price. What does "Goldenfleece" meanwhen he sneers at "constant anti-abortionism"? Is he going beyond criticism of tactics (e.g. the appropriate tone for pro-life material) to criticise the very idea of opposition to abortion? Any monsignor who praises the supposed Bayside apparition [in Long Island, New York form the 70s to the 90s] is deeply misguided. The diocesan bishop investigated it and decreed that it was clearly NOT supernatural, which means it is forbidden to promote it. Michael W Cuneo's book THE SMOKE OF SATAN has an useful account of it - Veronica Leuken, the supposed visionary, seems to have been a mixture of fraud and fantasist.
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Post by goldenfleece on Feb 3, 2011 14:01:40 GMT
No I am simply wary of people overpoliticising to accommodate obnoxious views about the government of America...I was very pro-life at one time, now the Americans have become deeply fanatical here. Well I could have worked that one out about the book...indeed if the priest has fallen from grace, then it is wrong to even recommend his ideas for consumption. Can you see what I mean? Anyone who writes the right sort of wildly phrased contention becomes acceptable, this is completely in error. If a man has been cautioned by the Church, that should be the first priority, not whether or not his theses are something to bind further a cause of any kind. Incidentally here, people who get sucked into Surbiton and Divine Innocence are given books to read the writers of which are often similarly disgraced, but the faithful are not made aware of this.A new traditionalist nun called Rosalind Moss cites books and authors of whom people rarely hear and she frequently goes on to put her own words into the most obscure mouths. This is why I find people like her very trying...they seem to be constantly attempting to justify candlelight in the age of the electric bulb, if you pardon the pun. I do not relish being counselled by anyone who seems to draw his or her knowledge of the religious life from a film set style ! This is a serious problem among Americans and so is medievalistic penchants tacked to spiritual warfare. They lost all sight of chronological history ...I don't know why this Monsignor believed in Bayside, I would really have thought more of his conrfaternity than that, but then again, orders are so decadent...I'm not being rude...the constant battery of anti-societalism by fanatics is so bad these days that one particularly is appalled that it targets the young and pietistically vulnerable. I leave off now. You'll know only too well where I hear these things and I refuse to involve the boards again with my problems about such people. Thanks-let us to much else.
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Post by hibernicus on Aug 31, 2011 11:06:53 GMT
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