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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jun 23, 2008 2:38:10 GMT
Taken form the Vatican Information Service:
CATHOLIC-ORTHODOX DOCUMENT ON THE NATURE OF THE CHURCH
VATICAN CITY, NOV 15, 2007 (VIS) - Made public today was the final document of the plenary assembly of the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. The meeting was held in the Italian city of Ravenna from October 8 to 14 under the presidency of Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, and His Excellency Ioannis, metropolitan of Pergamo.
The title of the final document is: "Ecclesiological and Canonical Consequences of the Sacramental Nature of the Church. Ecclesial Communion, Conciliarity and Authority."
Commenting on the 46-paragraph-long text in an interview with Vatican Radio, Cardinal Kasper affirmed that "the document speaks of the tension between authority and conciliarity (or synodality) at the local (i.e., diocesan), regional and universal levels. The important development is that for the first time the Orthodox Churches have said yes, this universal level of the Church exists and also at the universal level there is conciliarity, synodality and authority; this means that there is also a Primate; according to the practice of the ancient Church, the first bishop is the bishop of Rome."
This unification of the Catholic-Orthodox churches could conceivably double the size of the Catholic church in a single day by agreement. This is a major victory for the cause of Christ and could become the hallmark accomplishment during the Papacy of Benedict XVI. Perhaps it may lead to even greater unifications with Orthodox members from other faiths and someday lead the protestants to the realization that unity is better than independance when it comes to Holy Communion with Christ?
What do you think?
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 23, 2008 14:56:49 GMT
Moving toward the Orthodox Churches is a key element in Benedict's policy. This is one of the purposes behind his liturgical policy in the western Church (in case anyone thinks he just proclaimed Summorum Pontificum just because he likes the Latin liturgy in its own right) is rapprochement with the East.
But there is a lot of deep-seated hatred of Catholicism present in the Orthodox world which isn't going to go away overnight.
This will not happen under Benedict. It is not a case of days or weeks or months or years. It is a case of decades, if not generations. We lost a lot of time and ground by pandering to Protestants since 1965, and this time has to be made up. But we need to do more than good liturgy to convince the Orthodox.
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jun 23, 2008 23:38:25 GMT
Moving toward the Orthodox Churches is a key element in Benedict's policy. This is one of the purposes behind his liturgical policy in the western Church (in case anyone thinks he just proclaimed Summorum Pontificum just because he likes the Latin liturgy in its own right) is rapprochement with the East. But there is a lot of deep-seated hatred of Catholicism present in the Orthodox world which isn't going to go away overnight. This will not happen under Benedict. It is not a case of days or weeks or months or years. It is a case of decades, if not generations. We lost a lot of time and ground by pandering to Protestants since 1965, and this time has to be made up. But we need to do more than good liturgy to convince the Orthodox. alaisdir6, You obviously deeply understand our predicament in dealing with the Orthodox and the protestants. One experience I have is helpful in that I attend the Ukrainian Catholic Orthodox church her is USA and I am absolutely in awe of the Liturgy. For me to participate in the Ukrainian Orthodox Catholic rite is even far more satisfying than participation in the traditional latin rite. If my guess is correct, when the Orthodox and Catholic unite as one there will be a mass migration of Catholic's desirous of the TLM toward the Orthodox rites to satisfy their need to return to traditional worship services. There are absolutely millions who wish to return to the TLM and they will find what they are looking for in the Orthodox rites which is so identical to the TLM yet with even more intensive direct worship which satisfies our basic need to be in "worship" rather than a "casual relationship" with the Eucharist as many liberal Catholic Priest's promote. The Orthodox church will be literally "flooded" with TLM enthusiasts who are searching for a return to "true worship in the traditional rite" As far as the protestants are concerned, they are not called to Christ in any event as a whole. If by chance one or two are called to be Catholic then praise the Lord for calling them aboard. As you say I agree with we waste our time pandering to a people who are not even called by Christ to the Eucharist in His Body and Blood. They will not escape for perversion of the Word of God nor the revelation of Christ in the Eucharist. They will suffer for leading others astray from Christ.
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jun 24, 2008 0:06:51 GMT
[quote author=alaisdir6 board=general thread=131 post=915 time=1214233009]Moving toward the Orthodox Churches is a key element in Benedict's policy. This is one of the purposes behind his liturgical policy in the western Church (in case anyone thinks he just proclaimed Summorum Pontificum just because he likes the Latin liturgy in its own right) is rapprochement with the East.
But there is a lot of deep-seated hatred of Catholicism present in the Orthodox world which isn't going to go away overnight.
This will not happen under Benedict. It is not a case of days or weeks or months or years. It is a case of decades, if not generations. We lost a lot of time and ground by pandering to Protestants since 1965, and this time has to be made up. But we need to do more than good liturgy to convince the Orthodox.[/quote][/i]
Alaisdir, This is true, protestants are not called to Christ in the Eucharist, so they are lacking the Body and Blood of Christ which leaves them with "No life in them" as Christ has said, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you" The protestants do not eat and drink the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. However, if Catholic's are guilty of one fault, it may be the omission of exhortation. Many of the early Popes said this of Catholic's, that they do not exhort one another to faith and I beleive many Catholic's do not exhort protestants to tell the truth. Orthodox as well benefit from Catholic exhortation and Catholic's may exhort themselves to confession in order to attain perfection.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jun 24, 2008 10:49:57 GMT
I suppose I took a different take on Fatima and the conversion of Russia than most traditionalists did.
The conversion of Russia prior to the Revolution was a big issue for Leo XIII and St Pius X, and later Benedict XV and Pius XI. Pius XII and his successors moved away from the idea and Benedict XVI is the first one to return to it, but more due to the pre-Fatima developments in Papal Policy rather than Fatima.
Take a look at two features of Russian literature, both from Dostoyevsky - the 'Speech to the Princes' in The Idiot and the Legend of the Grand Inquisitor in The Brothers Karamazov to see perceptions of Rome in Russia which was then and is again now the biggest centre of Orthodoxy in the world (or the depiction of the Jesuits in Mussorgsky's opera Boris Gudonov). There was a movement towards Rome led by Vladimir Soloviev in the last century which was destroyed (or almost destroyed) by the Revolution, which is only evident again now.
Benedict also wants to move the theological focus back to the Fathers of the Church, which is another element in his liturgical policy. This will also move us closer to the Orthodox. Soloviev softened Dostoyevsky's attitude to Rome in his later life. But that will have to be done on a mass scale by Russian Catholics (by which I principally mean Russian Catholic of the eastern rite - Russian Greek Catholics) over a number of years rather than by signing a contract now.
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Post by royalosiodhachain on Jun 24, 2008 13:07:01 GMT
I suppose I took a different take on Fatima and the conversion of Russia than most traditionalists did. The conversion of Russia prior to the Revolution was a big issue for Leo XIII and St Pius X, and later Benedict XV and Pius XI. Pius XII and his successors moved away from the idea and Benedict XVI is the first one to return to it, but more due to the pre-Fatima developments in Papal Policy rather than Fatima. Take a look at two features of Russian literature, both from Dostoyevsky - the 'Speech to the Princes' in The Idiot and the Legend of the Grand Inquisitor in The Brothers Karamazov to see perceptions of Rome in Russia which was then and is again now the biggest centre of Orthodoxy in the world (or the depiction of the Jesuits in Mussorgsky's opera Boris Gudonov). There was a movement towards Rome led by Vladimir Soloviev in the last century which was destroyed (or almost destroyed) by the Revolution, which is only evident again now. Benedict also wants to move the theological focus back to the Fathers of the Church, which is another element in his liturgical policy. This will also move us closer to the Orthodox. Soloviev softened Dostoyevsky's attitude to Rome in his later life. But that will have to be done on a mass scale by Russian Catholics (by which I principally mean Russian Catholic of the eastern rite - Russian Greek Catholics) over a number of years rather than by signing a contract now. alaisdir, Communism caused a damaging effect on Orthodoxy in Russia as well as Catholicism. The writings of the religious in Russia reflect the turmoil caused by utter domination from an evil form of government. Communism world wide has the same damaging effect on peoples of both religious and non-religious persuasions. Here in the USA we suffer as well the damaging effect of protestantism with the population of this country primarily 60% protestant. The damaging effect dampens the Spirit of what few faithful Catholic's we have remaining and so America is fast degenerating into immorality and degradation. That is entirely the reason why the USA is so flagrantly crossing borders to annihilate foreign enemies and bankrupting this countrie's resources. Russia as well as Germany including the USA all transgressed boundaries to attempt domination of other peoples and races. Politically the leaders of all of these countries were motivated against religion in the Catholic form including Orthodoxy and much of the cause for desire to dominate destructively is from aethism and protestantism which are nearly identicle in their protest of the doctrine of the Catholic faith and Orthodoxy, protestants primarily "faking" a faith in Christ and aetheism denying the existance of Christ. In any event, the single motivation for dominance and destruction from any form of government is the denial of Christ in His Kingship of Heaven and Earth, hence government leaders attemp to proclaim themselves "King" to their own demise, as Christ has been promised by God Himself that He, "will lay Christ's enemies at His feet", and so God will do that at the proper time although only after those enemies are allowed to prove their deceit and wickedness to the world and before God through Christ Our Lord.
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Post by monkeyman on Jun 27, 2008 0:47:47 GMT
eeeehhhhhh....not likely.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jul 1, 2008 9:40:47 GMT
Though I would need more words to express myself, I agree with Monkeyman.
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