The official Garabandal promoters have no truck with other alleged visionaries but they are not immune from the problem of some who make their own of the apparitions mixing them with other messages. Of course the papal structure is not dependent on Pope Paul's statement but then the commentator in this case wasn't concerned with an in depth discussion of that issue and probably just used that statement as a quickie and handy reference point.
Garabandal deserves to be carefully studied. The prophecies emanating from these events are world shattering in their implications.(they do however tie in with similar prophecies made by various holy people in the past). They diovetail very well with the Fatima prophecies: for example the Warning and the Great Miracle show us how the conversion of Russia and the period of peace would be effected. While the children were being led by the Vision, obedience was always manifested to legitimate Church authority. The clear involvement of Padre Pio in connection with the events is, for many people, a forceful factor in favour. It is also known that the visionary Conchita Gonzales was a close friend of Mother Teresa. I realise that I have given very little nuts & bolts material in this post but there is no need as it's mostly there on the US site as referenced by me in an earlier post. I am always happy to try to clarify any perplexities that might arise in a study of these apparitions.
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Apr 13, 2010 15:25:09 GMT
At best, Garabandal is private revelation which is consistent with the Catholic faith; it could also either be fraud or diabolical manipulation.
That it dovetails with Fatima is a matter of opinion, but it does not matter one way or the other. Fatima is, at the end of the day, only private revelation. The Fatima message regarding the conversion of Russia has fortified many thinking in the mind of the Cold War US and, I find distracts from a concern popes from Leo XIII to Pius XI had with the conversion of Russia indepently of Fatima. As Lourdes can be taken as confirmation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception; Fatima can be taken as approbation of the Pope's concern with Russia. But, Fatima is in the eye of the beholder and to be honest, the revelation of the so-called third secret was one of the biggest disappointments I ever had. But faith isn't constructed on Fatima.
Neither is it constructed on Garabandal, which I have studied and which I do not believe to be to authentic. Eircomnet on one hand says there are only two messages of Garabandal, but the great warning, the miracle and the chastisement elaborated outside the message. I knew, and was influenced by, the late great Mgr Cremin who believed the messages to be authentic. Before that, I came under the influence of a very good Christian Brother, my school principal for a few years, who was convinced Garabandal was authentic (and who told us that the miracle would take place in John Paul II's pontificate; something I read also in a book by an American priest 'Oh Children Listen to Me' as far as I can recall). But in spite of the influence of both men on the development of my Catholic faith, I do not share their enthusiasm for Garabandal.
But though Lourdes and Fatima follow some event or trend, Garabandal comes from nowhere. Unless you want to take it as Richard Williamson does as an indictment from heaven of the Vatican II Church.
I understand two academics - David Doyle and Ivo O'Sullivan - are both convinced by it, both having started out as skeptics. But this isn't prove of it authenticity either.
Post by Askel McThurkill on Apr 14, 2010 9:28:39 GMT
Brother Cripps, by any chance, Alaisdir? Is he still alive?
I know it is not a sign of authenticity that visionaries go into religious life, as St Bernadette and Sr Lucia did. But many people have remarked on the fact that neither the Garabandal nor Medjugorje seers have.
Some points re Alaisdir's post. Firstly so that people will know where I am coming from, I don't regard it as my business to force Garabandal down people's throats, but because I do believe in it and in its importance, in the first place spiritually, but even materially as well, I do regard it as a duty to try to clarify points of possible misunderstanding or sometimes false information whenever they arise. There is a belief commonly held that because apparitions fall into the category of private revelation that we can afford to be casual about them even if they might be true and that they can be taken seriously or very safely ignored depending on one's taste in such matters. However we have to accept that if God decides to intervene in the affairs of mankind with an urgent message, we cannot decide that it's a matter of indifference. If it's true then it's extremely important-this is common sense. I am, of course, not making a plea for people to rush into every alleged manifestation quite the contrary as there's too much of that today but when an alleged event that has many marks of authenticity presents itself, I think it would be prudent to hold back and perhaps prayerfully seek God's help in our evaluation. As for Garabandal coming out of the blue a propos of nothing, I don't think so, as the succeeding years made manifest in the Church a crisis of unimaginable proportions. In answer to this the message of Garabandal reminds us of the importance of prayer, devotion to Our Lady, prayerful support for priests and devotion to the Eucharist.
Somebody who seems more motivated by casual curiosity than religious belief has opened a thread on Garabandal on Politics.ie. So far it is marked by a great deal of smoke and little light, with Lamports Edge complaining that it should be kicked off into a subforum on the grounds that Catholicism/Christianity is an asiatic importation alien to Irish culture. (Yawn). The professional atheists are so busy ranting about Catholicism and Marian apparitions in general that they have not so far bothered to pick up the iffy aspects of this specific vision (i.e. we are now two Popes past the great secret revelation, which has failed to materialise.) I link to p.4 of the thread because someone has embedded a 1970s video, now on Youtube, of Gay Byrne interviewing an alleged visionary on the Late Late Show.
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Jul 30, 2013 8:11:02 GMT
Brother Cripps mentioned on this thread was principal of Synge St CBS in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He was convinced of the authenticity of Garabandal and never lost an opportunity to promote it. Synge St was Gay Byrne's alma mater and it seems to me more than a coincidence that Garabandal was aired several times on the Late Late Show during the years that Bro Cripps was principal and superior of the school/monastery. Conchita Gonzalez was interviewed on one occasion and on another Dr David Noel Doyle and Dr Ivo O'Sullivan explained how they became convinced of its authenticity (Dr O'Sullivan initially set out to disprove it - he's a scientist).
As I said above, I don't believe that Garabandal is authentic. I believe people like Bro Cripps saw an answer to the problems they were encountering in the Church they gave their life to in the message of Garabandal and also that many young men who attended Synge St at the time were exposed to a degree of Catholicism that other schools in Dublin or elsewhere in Ireland was not present. To my recollection, every year through the 1980s in Synge St, more than one member of the leaving certificate class put himself forward for a priestly or religious vocation. I can name Fr Gabriel Burke, Fr Michael O'Leary (originally Archdiocese of Dublin, seconded to the Archdiocese of New York, now with the FSSP) and Fr Bryan Shorthall OFM Cap (Róisín's nephew) off the top of my head. Among those who studied for the priesthood but did not continue is the president of St Patrick's College, Drumcondra, Dr Daire Keogh (who wrote a biography of Blessed Edmund Rice, among other things). Also in the background is the philosopher-journalist, Dr Mark Dooley. And the editor of the Brandsma Review. Now all of these guys were influenced by Brother Cripps to some degree or other. So, Garabandal might be a side track, but it had a function in one Dublin school at that time. I wonder what effects Brother Cripps influence on Gay Byrne had.
BTW, Bro Cripps was still alive and healthy at the time of the Eucharistic Congress last year and in his 90s.
Rogerbuck, in matters like this it is not possible to give a laboratory type answer that would be cast iron; all I can do is offer some points that may prove helpful. One fact that is incontrovertible is that Conchita was received by Padre Pio. I myself attended a talk by Padre Eusebio (who was a close companion to Padre Pio) in Dublin many years ago. During his talk he referred to the fact that Conchita was
Rogerbuck, in matters like this it is not possible to give a laboratory type answer that would be cast iron; all I can do is offer some points that may prove helpful. One fact that is incontrovertible is that Conchita was received by Padre Pio. I myself attended a talk by Padre Eusebio (who was a close companion to Padre Pio) in Dublin many years ago. During his talk he referred to the fact that Conchita was received by Padre Pio. Now when one considers that hardened sinners were totally converted by Padre Pio, is it likely that she would continue to accept Garabandal much less promote it after such an encounter?
The story of Joey lomangino's meeting with Padre Pio and his subsequent conversion is featured on Garabandal websites. Of course it is possible for people to ask " How do we know that he met Padre Pio and that his account is true?" This is something I guess that people will have to satisfy themselves about. I myself met Joey years ago during a lecture tour of Ireland & I was most impressed with his sincerity. What would he have to gain by going around telling a story about receiving new eyes that would frankly sound ridiculous? The best I can suggest is that you have a look at Joey's story. It can be found with links on www.garabandal.us Interestingly Joey's promotion of Garabandal began right after his meeting with Padre Pio.
I am glad that you have been inspired by your visits to Marian shrines.
I do consider Garabandal to be very important because if it's true it has stupendous ramifications for the world.
I'm sorry if my reply falls somewhat short of your request but for statements made by Padre Pio, one will have to decide whether or not to believe the people who met him. One other point is that Padre Pio would not consider it appropriate to make a public statement as that would be trespassing on the territory of the bishop of Santander.
Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Oct 31, 2013 9:56:57 GMT
The authority of St Pio is persuasive, but not conclusive.
A priest of my acquaintance has a doctorate in ecclesiastical history (a D. Hist. Eccl. - this is a rare achievement) who worked on the causes of various Irish martyrs. He disbelieves that St Philomena, as she is accepted today, ever existed. He pointed to the tremendous devotion that the Curé of Ars had to St Philomena and said he believed that the Curé covered up what he did himself.
This may or may not be the case, but the point is that though there is a martyr now venerated by the name of St Philomena (they are female bones and the only inscription found in the area was the Greek phil loumena or lover of light which is not necessarily a name), the life given for her is not historically provable and the endorsement by St John Vianney does not validate it per se.
Likewise, that St Pio personally believed in Garabandal is not conclusive. It is the Bishop of Santander and not a priest based elsewhere, even one of obvious holiness like St Pio, that has jurisdiction and we are bound by the bishop's judgement. As the Bishop of Tarbes has jurisdiction re: Lourdes. Or Mostar re: Medjugorje. Or Tuam re: Knock. And so on.
margaretann: Is anyone hanging out white and yellow bunting for the Popes visit this year as we did for the last Popes visit.
Apr 1, 2018 15:57:13 GMT
maolsheachlann: I hadn't planned on it but it's a good idea.
Apr 4, 2018 12:52:39 GMT
maolsheachlann: I remember our parish priest complaining about the lack of flags for the Eucharistic Congress.
Apr 4, 2018 12:53:02 GMT
Magus123: I don't know what to believe about Medjegorje now. I was there in 1989. I saw the Priest and 2 of the visionaries. Is it real?
Apr 23, 2018 2:17:30 GMT
Magus123: Please, talk to me.
Apr 23, 2018 2:18:56 GMT
Young Ireland: No Magus, it is not. Anything miraculous happening there is the result of people's faith and not the apparition.
Apr 23, 2018 18:18:29 GMT
i like the nuns: i like nuns
May 19, 2018 19:56:19 GMT
Frank In: Hello
Jul 24, 2018 17:55:53 GMT
Nov 6, 2018 11:04:25 GMT
myholylandartifacts2: Definitely, the seven joys are different devotion. Yesterday I bought a beautiful handmade Rosary from holyland-artifacts.com/collections/frontpage/products/2 blessed in the Holy Sepulchre. The Rosary is mainly use by Roman Catholics while saying s
Nov 9, 2018 11:54:02 GMT
Claritas: Medjugorje ? I leave the visions / visionaries up to the Church. As for Our Lady - She is there. Go and experience the grace for yourself for a week. I was completely skeptical of Medjugorje until I did. It's an indescribably spiritual place.
Nov 17, 2018 2:53:29 GMT
maolsheachlann: Why did you go if you were completely sceptical?
Dec 18, 2018 19:36:25 GMT
woody: Medjugorje is a big hoax!
Dec 25, 2018 15:50:19 GMT
Claritas: It was not my intention to go until a series of events led me there. I'll leave it up to the Church to decide what is and is not a hoax, I can only judge what I personally experienced, and those of others pilgrims I met. My only regret is not going sooner.
Jan 16, 2019 22:58:04 GMT
Claritas: Maria, Regina Pacem, ora pro nobis.
Jan 16, 2019 22:59:12 GMT
Colmcille: Forum is all into politics of the world and mickey measuring instead of any depth of spirituality - wrong focus. No salt or light. Pray and Fast. May God bring blessings to you.
Feb 27, 2019 19:42:56 GMT
maolsheachlann: Well, that is because it is a forum. I suspect everyone who does post here prays and fasts and cultivates a spiritual life. But these are things we agree on, so it doesn't really make for discussion.
Feb 28, 2019 10:18:21 GMT
maolsheachlann: Of course, if you want to take it in a different direction you are welcome to post something.
Feb 28, 2019 13:18:15 GMT
Colmcille: Political nonsense. You don't have to disagree with the depth of Catholic spirituality, lives of the Saints and treasures of the faith in order to discuss them.
Mar 3, 2019 16:48:29 GMT
maolsheachlann: This is why I disabled the shoutbox on the Irish Conservatives Forum. People with substantive contributions to make will do so in the forum.
Mar 4, 2019 13:57:20 GMT