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Post by hibernicus on Jun 2, 2010 22:28:20 GMT
And the other side of the coin is that if the "traditionalist" element of the French Church had not got so heavily mixed up with Vichy and extreme-right politics the other wing might not have gone so far off the rails in the other direction. I'm afraid the story of the Jansenists, who attacked genuine abuses and were to some extent unfairly treated, but wound up in an inhuman rigorism, may be a better parallel
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Post by hibernicus on Jul 14, 2010 12:47:41 GMT
Some depressing news from RORATE CAELI: (1) ABrazilian archbishop undermines the implementaation of SP by transferring the priest away from a Latin Mass community without providing a replacement: EXTRACT Father Nildo Leal de Sá, of the Archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, was practically forced to abandon more than one hundred catholics who love the Traditional Mass. He celebrated his last Mass for the community this Sunday, announcing he had to leave the community, "due to personal reasons". Father Nildo had celebrated the Mass even before the Motu Proprio, by indult of the former Archbishop, José Cardoso Sobrinho, now retired
Archbishop Fernando Saburido, tied to Liberation Theology and current bishop, is according to some rumors, the one man responsible for all the pressure which has led to this disaster.
Arrangements are being made in order to alert the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" through ordinary means. But we need more publicity about this issue. END (2) Williamson claims Galaretta is saying the SSPX are engaging in talks with Rome only to strengthen their own position, and do not expect them to lead to a settlement: EXTRACT Many Catholic souls presently worried by the on-going discussions taking place between Rome and the Society of St Pius X might be somewhat re-assured if they could hear, as I did two months ago, Bishop de Galarreta giving his reasons why these discussions should proceed to their appointed end (but no further). They present little danger and several advantages, he says.
After the introductory meeting last October, there were discussions proper in January, March and May of this year. Each meeting has a before, a during and an after. Beforehand, the team of four SSPX representatives submits to the four Roman theologians a declaration of Catholic doctrine on the matter in hand, together with the problems raised by the contrary doctrine arising out of Vatican II. At the meeting itself, the Romans give their answers, and the ensuing oral discussion is recorded. Afterwards, the SSPX draws up a written summary of the recorded discussion. So far only the liturgy and religious liberty have been discussed, but the Bishop envisages all further necessary discussions being terminated by the spring of next year.
In evaluating these discussions, he distinguishes between the mere fact of their taking place, and their content. As to their content, he says that the SSPX team is disappointed by the oral discussions because, as another member of the team told me, "They lack theological precision. Two lines of thinking which cannot meet produce not a dialogue but rather two monologues. However, the Romans are nice to us, so the meetings are not so much vinegar as mayonnaise. We say what we think. We are under no illusions". But the Bishop does say that the discussions' written product from before and after the meetings will constitute a valuable dossier for the demarcation of Catholic Truth from Conciliar error, and for the tracking down of the latest evolution of that error. "Since the time of John-Paul II it has become more subtle", he says.
As to the mere fact of the discussions, the Bishop sees several further advantages. Firstly, it is good for Romans to get to know representatives of the SSPX, and vice versa -- such contact can cut out much of the Devil's beloved smoke and mirrors. Nor does the Bishop see great danger in the contact, because these particular Romans are not perverse, he says, and it is clear where they are coming from and where they want to go. Secondly, the mere fact that Rome at the highest level is seriously discussing SSPX doctrine gives to the SSPX credit in the eyes of many a mainstream priest of good will, otherwise inaccessible for Tradition. And thirdly, some of Rome's best brains are occasionally stopped in their tracks by the old arguments being newly put forward by the SSPX. In other words Catholic Truth may be only beginning, but it is beginning, to impose itself once more. END
(3) A Swiss Augustinian canon leaves his abbey for Econe because of hostility to celebration of EF/TLM under SP EXTRACT This weekend, many Catholic faithful in the Valais (Switzerland), close to the very ancient Abbey of Saint-Maurice d'Agaune, which used to be a bulwark of Swiss-French Catholicism, were surprised to learn that one of the most beloved priests in the abbey, Canon Yannick Escher, had left the Augustinian house.
Canon Escher, who was the Chaplain of the abbatial school and master of ceremonies at the Abbey, left Saint-Maurice for ... Écône [the main international Seminary of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X - FSSPX / SSPX, also in the Valais]. Why? Summorum Pontificum Observatus explains:
In a message he sent us this morning, Canon Yannick Escher explains himself, and adds important details. He thus underlines that "Mgr. Roduit, the Abbot of Saint-Maurice, received a 5-page letter explaining my departure. On the following morning, my fellow brothers received the same letter. It involves essentially liturgical (it is unthinkable to implement the Motu proprio) and doctrinal reasons."
It is thus confirmed that the reasons for this departure are not those of a personal nature - a bad relationship with his brothers or a depression, etc. - but rather liturgical and doctrinal. Canon Escher informs that implementing the Motu Proprio was unthinkable.
Three years after the promulgation of the latter, the time of the reports having arrived, this departure of Canon Escher should be understood in this perspective. The resistance to the Motu Proprio is great among the episcopal and ecclesial authorities. ... It is about time that the Ecclesia Dei commission knows what it wishes to do so that it will not fall again in the inaction of the previous years. END
An anonymous commenter on the last of these RORATE threads puts the central point very well: EXTRACT My argument is simply that supporting the FSSPX is, by its very nature, a decision to NOT support the restoration of Tradition within the Church. Believe it or not, but the modernists were always happy over the last 40 years when Catholics decided to leave for the FSSPX. [I'VE HEARD THIS SAID ABOUT THE DIOCESAN RESPONSE TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SSPX CHAPEL IN CORK - HIB] The FSSPX do not pose a problem to the modernists. SP does, but the FSSPX does not.
Plain and simple -- any and all efforts that support the FSSPX are energies, resources, stable communities, clerics, etc. that are being taken away from the fight within the Church.
Some of the greatest suffering in the world is in the realm of the spiritual, emotional, and mental faculties. When a Catholic is faced with a bad bishop we suffer greatly. So be it -- offer it up. The FSSPX are definitely a glistening grape -- but at, at present, they remain a forbidden fruit. END
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Aug 19, 2010 10:51:32 GMT
If the attribution to Mgr de Gallaretta is authentic, we cannot have too much confidence in the Rome-Econe talks. I think the commentator has a point in regard to support for the SSPX: it is irrrelevant to the struggle within the Church - it is diverted outside it.
Another thing: members of orders of Canons Regular are not referred to as 'Canon', but as every other priest of a religious order, as 'Father'. The title 'canon' is reserved to priests who are members of cathedral chapters.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 9:28:36 GMT
ORIGINALLY IN THE DUBLIN THREAD ON MOTU PROPRIO UP TO DATE Re: Dublin « Reply #54 on Sept 14, 2010, 8:08pm »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WelL Fr. "Angry" Angles has finally stepped down. Well done Fr. Loschi, were praying you after your courageous act.
Also, on another note regards Dublin, Fr. Deighan will celebrate a Solemn High Mass and Te Deum in University Church Stephens Green on Monday 20th September at 7 pm
In Nomine Christe,
CPM
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 9:29:31 GMT
Re: Dublin « Reply #55 Yesterday at 11:12am » [POSTED IN dUBLIN MOTU PROPRIO THREAD BY gUILLAUME]
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Sept 14, 2010, 8:08pm, cpm wrote:WelL Fr. "Angry" Angles has finally stepped down. Well done Fr. Loschi, were praying you after your courageous act.
Also, on another note regards Dublin, Fr. Deighan will celebrate a Solemn High Mass and Te Deum in University Church Stephens Green on Monday 20th September at 7 pm
In Nomine Christe,
CPM
Wow, what are you talking about ? Fr Angles from SSPX ? We need more details !
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 9:30:16 GMT
ORIGINALLY IN DUBLIN MOTU PROPRIO THREAD Re: Dublin « Reply #56 Yesterday at 2:57pm »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes its true. It was announced at masses around 2-3 weekends ago. Apparantly he's stepping down due to health reasons. But he's still allowed to live in his flat in the presbytery.
Apparantly Fr. Loschi went to Bishop Fellay in person after he resigned from his post in Athlone and complained about Angles, so I suspect it may be more than health reasons for Fr. Angles stepping down. After 7 years as Superior of Ireland (I may be wrong on that) and 7 priests leaving (most of their own accord).
If anyone wants more information please pm me,
In Nomine Christe,
CPM
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 9:31:06 GMT
FROM BENEDICT O NIADH - ORIGINALLY IN DUBLIN MOTU PROPRIO THREAD Re: Dublin « Reply #57 Yesterday at 3:58pm »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Father Angles has little to do with the MP in the Archdiocese of Dublin and should be in an SSPX thread. But it is big news and what I heard on the grapevine corresponds with what cpm has posted.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 9:32:47 GMT
When CPM says seven priests have left when Fr Angles was SSPX Irish superior, does he mean that they left the SSPX altogether or moved elsewhere but stayed in the SSPX?
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 16, 2010 10:03:44 GMT
When CPM says seven priests have left when Fr Angles was SSPX Irish superior, does he mean that they left the SSPX altogether or moved elsewhere but stayed in the SSPX? I think CPM means the priests left Ireland, but remain in the SSPX (I don't know if Fr van der Putten was already gone when Fr Angles got here. He has been laicised forcibly - a rare incident of the SSPX requesting the Vatican to do this and thanking them when they did). I remember two incidents touching on the SSPX apostolate in Cork. First of all, a popular priest, Fr Portugal was more or less forced out of Ireland, apparently because he gave an interview or something to The Hibernian Magazine. Funny - Fr Angles featured in the first issue of the Hib, but things change over time: the SSPX initially seemed to support it, but then came down the heavy on it. Secondly another priest whose name alludes me at present was due to say Mass over a weekend in Cork which included All Saints and All Souls. These Masses were cancelled at short notice. I heard much more of the same about Fr Angles.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 10:25:42 GMT
I didn't know the SSPX turned against the HIBERNIAN - odd, given that it was always praising archbishop Lefebvre and Bishop Williamson. Was it just because like certain rulers the SSPX cannot tolerate even supporters who are outside their control or was it that some of that paper's conspiracy theories were a bit too much even for them? Maybe it was the critical references to General Franco's repression of Catalan nationalism?
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Sept 16, 2010 13:26:15 GMT
The Hibernian was very clearly pro-pixie, but the decisive point I think was when the editor/publisher Gerry McGeough's background became public. Having said that I think the two reasons Hibernicus advances for the SSPX turnaround would have been sufficient for them.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 16, 2010 13:39:43 GMT
I'm surprised McGeough's background would make that much difference, given that it is widely believed that many Irish SSPX supporters hold extreme republican and ultra-nationalist views. Then again, we may be talking about the superiors/clergy rather than the membership as a whole. I am told that when Bishop Williamson visited Dublin some years ago and gave voice to his pet theories on the glories of the British Empire and the sinful unwillingness of lesser nations like the Indians, Americans and others we needn't mention to go on supporting the superior British breed in the standard of living they deserve, considerable discontent ensued. I fear some of these people would have been quite content had he stuck to the Jews, but it's a different matter when you and your own people are on the receiving end.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 17, 2010 20:29:22 GMT
Yes, I heard about Bishop Dickie's (I'm obeying moderator's instructions here!) when he was in Ireland in the '90s - even the Unionist sympathisers in the congregation were annoyed.
I don't know whether it is rumour or wishful thinking, but some SSPX friends of mine reckon Fr Sherry, the Cavan man, will be the next SSPX superior in Athlone.
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ulick
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by ulick on Sept 19, 2010 22:16:40 GMT
I don't know whether it is rumour or wishful thinking, but some SSPX friends of mine reckon Fr Sherry, the Cavan man, will be the next SSPX superior in Athlone. Yes Fr Nicholls announced this at Mass two weeks ago along with the news he was returning to the US. Last week we heard that Fr Angles was stepping down with Fr Morgan the District Superior in Britain assuming responsibility for Ireland. Fr Sherry and Fr Gallagher have moved to Althone with Fr Sherry as superior there. Fr Gallagher said Mass in Belfast this morning.
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Post by hibernicus on Sept 20, 2010 10:13:08 GMT
If the ravers on the Ignis Ardens forum are representative of the British SSPX, having the British Superior assume responsibility for Ireland may not be much of an improvement.
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