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Post by hibernicus on Jul 26, 2023 22:52:22 GMT
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Aug 8, 2023 15:55:55 GMT
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 13, 2023 13:01:07 GMT
I contrast this with the idiotic situation found in the state of Texas where a Carmel is almost being forced in the schism due to the diocesan bishop's overreaction to the prioress'es confession, while seriously ill, that she may have pushed the limit of chastity in online conversations with a priest who had a history of physical illness. I don't believe the prioress was blameless, but I believe the bishop showed himself to be incompetent in the extreme, backed up by a questionable secretary in the Dicastery for Religious. But to compare this to the treatment of Father Rupnik, who is being allowed walk away from a history of abusing nuns.
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Post by hibernicus on Oct 29, 2023 22:34:19 GMT
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Feb 6, 2024 9:39:35 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 6, 2024 10:12:54 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 6, 2024 10:20:34 GMT
The question I have here might belong in the Pope Francis thread. How did the English writer Austen Ivereigh insinuate himself into the papal court to a degree that he could blunt the sanctions used against Father Rupnik on one hand and Bishop Vangelhuwe of Bruges on the other? I know I am giving credence to rumours, but the rumours didn't come from nowhere.
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 7, 2024 23:40:44 GMT
Austin Ivereigh is an expert on Argentina, particularly church politics. He was already publishing books on the subject in the 1990s, so he probably has longstanding contacts. I would be a bit wary of the rumours; Ivereigh will defend practically anything Pope Francis does, but that doesn't mean he inspired it.
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 7, 2024 23:48:29 GMT
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 8, 2024 11:31:30 GMT
If anyone is wondering about the St Louis Jesuit hymns, I'll give you a flavour here: Wood hath hope. I haven't heard this since the 1980s, so I listened again and it was much weirder than I remember. But I was an impressionable teenager when I was told this was the way the Church must go. That hasn't aged well. It brings back memories of the likes of the late Kevin O'Kelly giving soft interviews to the likes of Archbishop Rembert Weakland OSB on Radharc. Go bhfóire Dia orainn!When it comes to Hilary White's article, I have to say I find The Pillar a lot more reliable than either The Remnant or Life Site News, but that shouldn't take from the case made. What The Pillar says is bad enough. In this case, I remember the question posed by Bridey in Brideshead Revisited regarding the chapel "But is it good art?" I think Hilary White answers this question very well in her article. It is a send up of the whole eastern tradition, a glorification of the primitive. I am a bit surprised at Pope Francis as unbeknownst to most people, he has a very delicate ear for music, eye for art and heart for literature, perhaps more so than his immediate predecessors (and that bar is very high). But to a large degree, we seem to have regressed to the aesthetics of the pontificate of Paul VI. When someone like Austin Ivereigh talks of Rupnik's art being a work of grace, I hear a court flatterer. But with the Pope, I think something else is going on and I would like to know what it is. I have to say that I have long been interested in the Eastern Churches and without the expertise in art, I found Rupnik's a very poor imitation. Icons are essentially works of prayer and fasting and Father Rupnik's spirituality seems to me to have been based on a most extreme self indulgence. When it comes to Ignatian spirituality, I think of St Francis Xavier, St Edmund Campion, St Isaac Jogues, St Paul Miki, Blessed Dominic Collins, Blessed John Sullivan and Blessed Rupert Mayer. Plenty more - Father Alfred Delp, Bishop McGuckian whom I mentioned earlier today by implication, his brothers, my old friend An tAthair Proinsias Ó Fionnagáin. St Teresa of Calcutta. I am only touching on this. But when Ignatian spirituality is twisted and distorted, it can be a very dangerous thing. Father Rupnik is but one example. I heard an interview recently between Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg and the Princess Gloria von Thurn und Taxis where the princess referred to Francis' membership of the Jesuits (strictly speaking, he ceased to be a Jesuit canonically when he became auxilliary bishop in Buenos Aires, but bishops who are members of religious orders maintain the styles such as 'SJ' or in the case of the Capuchin Cardinal O'Malley, the habit of the order. But the point was that Jesuits, as missionaries, don't mention points of contention but attempt to work around them. To a large degree Francis is doing this, but he is not helped by those who have gathered round him. He also treated Cardinal Burke (of whom I must say I am not a fan) more like an errant Jesuit scholastic than a prince of the Church. A cardinal is a counsellor to the Pope and if a cardinal can't speak his mind, he can't serve that function. Back to the point, I think we need to pray that the Pope gets better counsellors than those that he has and that he should attempt to address the case of Father Rupnik from the point of view of justice for his victims. Oh, and also rid the Church of his awful art.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Feb 8, 2024 14:59:59 GMT
Austin Ivereigh is an expert on Argentina, particularly church politics. He was already publishing books on the subject in the 1990s, so he probably has longstanding contacts. I would be a bit wary of the rumours; Ivereigh will defend practically anything Pope Francis does, but that doesn't mean he inspired it. So it's probably fair to say, he found himself on familiar ground and took advantage of it.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Feb 8, 2024 15:02:31 GMT
If anyone is wondering about the St Louis Jesuit hymns, I'll give you a flavour here: Wood hath hope. I haven't heard this since the 1980s, so I listened again and it was much weirder than I remember. But I was an impressionable teenager when I was told this was the way the Church must go. That hasn't aged well. It brings back memories of the likes of the late Kevin O'Kelly giving soft interviews to the likes of Archbishop Rembert Weakland OSB on Radharc. Go bhfóire Dia orainn! Don't know about you, but the adjective creepy comes into my head. Hang on, that's the whole thread here, isn't it?
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Post by hibernicus on Feb 9, 2024 1:46:03 GMT
Having dumped a lot of pre-conciliar church art on the pretext that it was kitsch - some of it was, not all - a new type of kitsch has been substituted. It's still kitsch - and in Fr Rupnik's case something worse. Eric Gill definitely comes to mind as a comparison. The philistines who originally criticised his use of erotic mysticism in religious art have been pretty well vindicated by subsequent revelations. This sort of problem is not purely postconciliar, though Gill was part of a Catholic Bohemia distanced to some extent from official and popular Catholicism of the era, while Rupnik has basked in official favour. Personally, I feel more and more that Gill's Westminster cathedral Stations of the Cross give me the creeps, though whether I would feel that way if I didn't know what he did is unclear.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Feb 9, 2024 16:48:42 GMT
Just listened to the St Louis Jesuits' "Wood hath hope" again to remind myself how creepy it was. I am worried about how I accepted a lot of this stuff when I was a teenager, but then again in retrospect I can see this sort of stuff was pushing me out of the Church. Maybe nothing individually, but taken collectively this sort of aesthetic taken with shaky morals and dogma acted together.
I don't believe this was anything like what Paul VI envisaged, but he seriously lost control of the narrative.
The parallel between Eric Gill and Marko Rupnik is pertinent, though I think that as a priest (as he still is) and a Jesuit (as he was) makes his behaviour all the worst. Now I don't know how true it is that Caravaggio had a man murdered for one of his paintings or that Bernini (who is one of my favourite sculptors probably only second to Michaelangelo) based his The Ectasy of St Teresa of Avila on his mistress in state of orgasm, but vice doesn't justify art. I haven't seriously viewed Gill's work, but Rupnik's is infantile. There is an arrogance seeping through this whole story. Because Gill isn't contemporary, so we can't see the same thing, but what we know is bad enough. So, I would be minded towards removing both Gill's and Rupnik's works from whatever churches they are in.
BTW, there was plenty of pre-conciliar kitsch, but I find that when the post-conciliar elite make an appeal to 'noble simplicity', my answer is that one man's noble simplicity is another's banality. And by God, there is no absence of banality in the post-conciliar Church.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Feb 23, 2024 10:52:47 GMT
This story just won't die.
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