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Post by unfortunately on Sept 27, 2019 13:40:08 GMT
If there was an Irish polical party with the following policies and beliefs, would you vote for them?
Ireland is a Catholic country and should be organised around that belief. Catholicism should be promoted in schools, however schools for other minority religions would be tolerated. Other beliefs such as atheism, socialism, communism, anarchism or anything inherently anti-Catholic should be suppressed i.e. Censor books, films etc. Blasphemy should be illegal. Abortion should be illegal. Divorce should be illegal. Contraception should be illegal. Pornography should be illegal. Homosexuality should be illegal. This includes sex acts, displays of affection, right to marry, any positive depiction in media, protection from being fired etc.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Sept 27, 2019 15:41:26 GMT
If there was an Irish polical party with the following policies and beliefs, would you vote for them? Ireland is a Catholic country and should be organised around that belief. Catholicism should be promoted in schools, however schools for other minority religions would be tolerated. Other beliefs such as atheism, socialism, communism, anarchism or anything inherently anti-Catholic should be suppressed i.e. Censor books, films etc. Blasphemy should be illegal. Abortion should be illegal. Divorce should be illegal. Contraception should be illegal. Pornography should be illegal. Homosexuality should be illegal. This includes sex acts, displays of affection, right to marry, any positive depiction in media, protection from being fired etc. How would this party illegalise homosexuality exactly? This sort of Catholic intregalism is not really relevant in today's situation and would only serve the purpose of a protest vote. Nor does it seem consistent with the policy of the Church since Vatican II. I certainly believe abortion and pornography should be illegalised and I have no problem censoring blasphemy (not only against Catholicism but also other religions, including non-Christian religions). However, I would not vote for this party as it seems intent upon suppressing free speech and genuine civil liberties. Same-sex marriage should be abolished but the rest of the policy regarding homosexuality seems draconian indeed.
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Post by hibernicus on Oct 4, 2019 21:13:22 GMT
Depending on the candidate, I might give them a protest vote to frighten the mainstream parties (and indeed I might AS A PROTEST VOTE even if, say, "Calvinist" were substituted for "Catholic"), but I would be extremely wary of them - especially if they had any chance of real power- for the following reasons: (1) To start with the elephant in the room, we are way past the point at which a political party on its own can uphold or enforce these things (assuming for the sake of argument that they are all desirable). It would need a much wider cultural and spiritual revival to begin with. (2) How are these things to be enforced? Most of the population would not co-operate, and law enforcement and judicial personnel certainly wouldn't. What exactly does "illegal" mean in this context - a small fine, or public stoning on the Iranian model? How could "positive depiction of homosexuality" be made illegal, given that international media are accessible for anyone with a satellite dish or an internet connection? Who defines what constitutes blasphemy? What does "inherently anti-Catholic" mean, given that any non-Catholic religion can be described as "inherently anti-Catholic" (and don't think there haven't been some Catholics who haven't taken exactly that view)? What happens if the bishops (who are a non-negotiable part of the church) declare that this party is unCatholic? (3) What other policies does this party have? How are they to persuade the electorate that these measures are part of a wider worldview which if implemented would make their lives better? If this party comes to power, are the voters to be allowed to criticise how it runs the country, or vote it out at the next election if they don't like it in practice? This reads like somebody daydreaming about being a Catholic dictator and imposing a reign of virtue by force alone. Some people have daydreams of this sort in early adolescence, but if they don't grow out of them extremely fast they are dangerous. It's a recipe for spiritual and political suicide bombers who think Margaret Atwood's Gilead is meant as a description of paradise on earth. Pray and do good works instead, and try learning how to think.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Oct 6, 2019 19:14:06 GMT
Depending on the candidate, I might give them a protest vote to frighten the mainstream parties (and indeed I might AS A PROTEST VOTE even if, say, "Calvinist" were substituted for "Catholic"), but I would be extremely wary of them - especially if they had any chance of real power- for the following reasons: (1) To start with the elephant in the room, we are way past the point at which a political party on its own can uphold or enforce these things (assuming for the sake of argument that they are all desirable). It would need a much wider cultural and spiritual revival to begin with. (2) How are these things to be enforced? Most of the population would not co-operate, and law enforcement and judicial personnel certainly wouldn't. What exactly does "illegal" mean in this context - a small fine, or public stoning on the Iranian model? How could "positive depiction of homosexuality" be made illegal, given that international media are accessible for anyone with a satellite dish or an internet connection? Who defines what constitutes blasphemy? What does "inherently anti-Catholic" mean, given that any non-Catholic religion can be described as "inherently anti-Catholic" (and don't think there haven't been some Catholics who haven't taken exactly that view)? What happens if the bishops (who are a non-negotiable part of the church) declare that this party is unCatholic? (3) What other policies does this party have? How are they to persuade the electorate that these measures are part of a wider worldview which if implemented would make their lives better? If this party comes to power, are the voters to be allowed to criticise how it runs the country, or vote it out at the next election if they don't like it in practice? This reads like somebody daydreaming about being a Catholic dictator and imposing a reign of virtue by force alone. Some people have daydreams of this sort in early adolescence, but if they don't grow out of them extremely fast they are dangerous. It's a recipe for spiritual and political suicide bombers who think Margaret Atwood's Gilead is meant as a description of paradise on earth. Pray and do good works instead, and try learning how to think. Hibernicus, unfortunately is a liberal atheist. Not sure the motive of his question, but just so you know.
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Post by Young Ireland on Oct 6, 2019 19:19:00 GMT
Depending on the candidate, I might give them a protest vote to frighten the mainstream parties (and indeed I might AS A PROTEST VOTE even if, say, "Calvinist" were substituted for "Catholic"), but I would be extremely wary of them - especially if they had any chance of real power- for the following reasons: (1) To start with the elephant in the room, we are way past the point at which a political party on its own can uphold or enforce these things (assuming for the sake of argument that they are all desirable). It would need a much wider cultural and spiritual revival to begin with. (2) How are these things to be enforced? Most of the population would not co-operate, and law enforcement and judicial personnel certainly wouldn't. What exactly does "illegal" mean in this context - a small fine, or public stoning on the Iranian model? How could "positive depiction of homosexuality" be made illegal, given that international media are accessible for anyone with a satellite dish or an internet connection? Who defines what constitutes blasphemy? What does "inherently anti-Catholic" mean, given that any non-Catholic religion can be described as "inherently anti-Catholic" (and don't think there haven't been some Catholics who haven't taken exactly that view)? What happens if the bishops (who are a non-negotiable part of the church) declare that this party is unCatholic? (3) What other policies does this party have? How are they to persuade the electorate that these measures are part of a wider worldview which if implemented would make their lives better? If this party comes to power, are the voters to be allowed to criticise how it runs the country, or vote it out at the next election if they don't like it in practice? This reads like somebody daydreaming about being a Catholic dictator and imposing a reign of virtue by force alone. Some people have daydreams of this sort in early adolescence, but if they don't grow out of them extremely fast they are dangerous. It's a recipe for spiritual and political suicide bombers who think Margaret Atwood's Gilead is meant as a description of paradise on earth. Pray and do good works instead, and try learning how to think. Hibernicus, unfortunately is a liberal atheist. Not sure the motive of his question, but just so you know. So basically he's trolling us?
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Post by maolsheachlann on Oct 6, 2019 19:30:15 GMT
Hibernicus, unfortunately is a liberal atheist. Not sure the motive of his question, but just so you know. So basically he's trolling us? I am trying to be charitable. I banned him from the Irish Conservatives Forum, to some criticism, as I felt he wasn't there for dialogue but just to score points. He was perfectly polite, though, so perhaps I was unfair.
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Post by hibernicus on Oct 6, 2019 20:31:19 GMT
I guessed it was either an atheist troll or an ultra-integralist. Both types see the faith as a set of arbitrary prohibitions and don't bother much with its positive content. My points stand whether I am addressing Atheist McAtheistface "Reason is whatever Dawkins says this week" or Pope Sextus VI of Mom's Basement, Fractured Jaw, WY - pending his transfer to the Vatican, which he expects the angels who speak through his dental fillings to accomplish in the next fortnight.
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