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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Sept 10, 2015 11:38:31 GMT
If you have the stomach, read this: wearechurchireland.ie/blame-the-irish-times-blame-the-rabbits-blame-charlie-hebdo/#comment-149I took a look at this site mainly because I read another annoying letter from Brendan Butler in The Irish Times this morning. The post I picked illustrates best the bubble these people inhabit. The comment, from January, is the fourth most recent comment on the site, which is a good indication of how serious they're taken. For once I am defending Fr Brendan Hoban (I hope you are reading, Fr Hoban) - he makes a reasonable comment on a tasteless piece in The Irish Times. The problem is that the "We are Church" people are devoid of any sense that the media is a vested interest. How they missed this is beyond me. But then again, they don't seem to do self-criticism well. Mr Butler's letter rants at the annulment procedure changes and talks about the way the Church is unwelcoming to re-married divorcees. Does he have any insight into the hurt which children of parents who have divorced feel, or of the pain felt by the deserted spouse (usually, but not always, the wife). I have had to confront some of this grief recently among friends and I can assure anyone that there is a vast gulf between a divorce culture and a non-divorce culture. The latter may be constrained, and constricting, but the former is destructive. From the experience of friends of separation and divorce, I see the wisdom of those who canvassed for a "No" vote in 1986 and 1995. The annulment process is altogether different, in that it seeks a reason why the marriage was not valid. This is something which does happen and is recognised in civil law as much as canon law. In 1986, the Oireachtas had the opportunity to revisit the civil nullity process, but there was a determination to get divorce on the statute book, no matter what. We can cry about it now, but I wonder of the advisability of electing some of our public representatives over the years. It's unusual, though, that there are more civil nullity decrees now than anticipated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 13:25:05 GMT
Another site full of filthy dissenting heretics. Not to be ageist, but I do notice that the people behind the site - the "core" members - aren't exactly young, which suggests that they don't have a lot of fresh support, though I am aware that doesn't mean there are no younger Catholics of a similar mind. They also claim to have 250 people as part of their mailing list - though that doesn't take into account how many are active in their support, or how many might be from the same person - so that isn't really a huge amount of support. I think the time is coming where it's either going to be proper Catholicism or none at all.
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Post by maolsheachlann on Sept 10, 2015 14:18:54 GMT
I try to get into the minds of these people but I can't. Sometimes I think they must have amazing faith-- they seem to believe in some kind of 'inner light' Catholicism that has no need of doctrine or dogma and just tells us the right thing to do in all cases. In my more generous moments I find that touching.
"The Irish Times may also suspect that the vast majority of Catholics treasure the simple core Good News of our religion in terms of a loving God, a risen Saviour and a Spirit of love/sharing/ justice/peace but are quite prepared to walk away from or jettison outdated clerical thinking, systems, structures, or other medieval accretions."
Love/Sharing/Justice/Peace could be an album by the Red Hot Chilli Peppers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 14:47:54 GMT
"walk away from or jettison outdated clerical thinking"
Hey, just like Martin Luther! We all know well that turned out. But seriously, it's not outdated because you too lazy or cowardly. Time to join the rest of the protestants.
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Post by Young Ireland on Sept 10, 2015 17:21:16 GMT
Another site full of filthy dissenting heretics. Not to be ageist, but I do notice that the people behind the site - the "core" members - aren't exactly young, which suggests that they don't have a lot of fresh support, though I am aware that doesn't mean there are no younger Catholics of a similar mind. They also claim to have 250 people as part of their mailing list - though that doesn't take into account how many are active in their support, or how many might be from the same person - so that isn't really a huge amount of support. I think the time is coming where it's either going to be proper Catholicism or none at all. I agree that they will have to choose at some point, but I think calling them "filthy dissenting heretics" is unnecessary when we have enough ammunition with which to critique their views.
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Post by Alaisdir Ua Séaghdha on Sept 11, 2015 10:46:30 GMT
We are really dealing with "true believers" here. I have a lot of liberal left and secularist colleagues here and I tell you none of them take media reports, whether from Times or Guardian or wherever at face value. Which makes it all the more incredible that these people have no criticism of the media whatsoever. And yet they seem to have an almost childlike faith and confidence in their own precepts, and the overwhelming support of Catholics everywhere with them. You wonder did these people ever read the Fathers of the Church. This is the prism through which we received the Gospels, and it is pre-mediaeval. If they did, they would get a shock. Re: divorce, Our Divine Lord does not mince His words about divorce and adultery in the Gospels. But no one told Brendan Butler - or less he thought it was something he could safely ignore. The youngest face in the "core" group (the term core group was very much a buzz word in religious order circles in the 1980s) is Gina Menzies, who God help us, teaches medical ethics in the Royal College of Surgeons. Mrs Menzies describes herself as a theologian due to night courses in the Miltown Institute. She has a long record as an FG activist (she's on some state board to do with museum, appointed by our Elitist, Narcisist, DysfunctionAl leader himself), she is media fodder for commentary in church matters (she was practically in tears when Benedict was elected Pope) and she was part of a group called Christians for Divorce which campaigned for a "yes" vote in 1986 (Gay Byrne pressed her at the time as to whether she was a Catholic on The Late, Late Show and she refused to answer). So my conclusion is that she studied theology principally to back up her own ideas and that she has made a career out of it ever since. In regard to both Brendan Butler and Gina Menzies, I have a story very much a propos. These people would be fans of Father Gabriel Daly OSA. I have a story about the same Fr Daly. The night Archbishop McNamara died, David Hanly contacted Fr Daly at the Augustinian House in Ballyboden, inviting him to come on Morning Ireland the following morning to discuss the late Archbishop. He talked to Mgr Leo O'Sullivan OSA, the parish priest in Ballyboden who was also one of Archbishop McNamara's Vicars General (hence being unusual as being a monsignor in a religious order). Fr Daly was in two minds about going on as he had made it clear in the past that he disliked Archbishop McNamara. Mgr O'Sullivan said to him that David Hanly was using him, something Fr Daly hadn't considered - and that made up his mind. He didn't go on the programme, much to his credit. This is the bit that these liberal Catholics, whether priests, religious and laity, don't get. They take the exposure in the media as confirmation of the rightness of their cause. They don't get that the media are using them. Unless someone points it out. Have a look over the wikipedia entry on Gina Menzies, which looks very much like a CV, and you'll see what I mean.
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Post by Beinidict Ó Niaidh on Sept 11, 2015 11:20:48 GMT
I couldn't help but do some sniffing around at Gina Menzies' gig in the RCSI, but I think I got to the bottom of it. The medical ethics people there are Dr Noreen O'Carroll and Professor David Smith. Dr O'Carroll is a philosopher, but reacted with indignation to Irish Times correspondence to the one-time Meath diocesan enfant terrible, Rev David O'Hanlon (now parish priest in Dysart, Co Westmeath - the wikipedia article is very unreliable). For someone parading as a philosopher, the response struck me as anything but logical or analytic. Then there is Professor Smith. It is a coincidence that MSC and MSc look so similar, so when you see Father Smith in his collar and tie, you won't get straight away that MSC is Missionaries of the Sacred Heart and not Master of Science. Father Smith has a long history of dissent, and I have heard his views on abortion questioned. He was known to be close to Dr O'Carroll in Milltown, so the two obviously have a good working relationship. Looks very much like Gina Menzies was pushing on an open door to get into the RCSI.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 19:59:09 GMT
Another site full of filthy dissenting heretics. Not to be ageist, but I do notice that the people behind the site - the "core" members - aren't exactly young, which suggests that they don't have a lot of fresh support, though I am aware that doesn't mean there are no younger Catholics of a similar mind. They also claim to have 250 people as part of their mailing list - though that doesn't take into account how many are active in their support, or how many might be from the same person - so that isn't really a huge amount of support. I think the time is coming where it's either going to be proper Catholicism or none at all. I agree that they will have to choose at some point, but I think calling them "filthy dissenting heretics" is unnecessary when we have enough ammunition with which to critique their views. Yes, you are right. Pardon me.
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Post by Askel McThurkill on Sept 16, 2015 10:34:22 GMT
We are really dealing with "true believers" here. I have a lot of liberal left and secularist colleagues here and I tell you none of them take media reports, whether from Times or Guardian or wherever at face value. Which makes it all the more incredible that these people have no criticism of the media whatsoever. And yet they seem to have an almost childlike faith and confidence in their own precepts, and the overwhelming support of Catholics everywhere with them....In regard to both Brendan Butler and Gina Menzies, I have a story very much a propos. These people would be fans of Father Gabriel Daly OSA. I have a story about the same Fr Daly. The night Archbishop McNamara died, David Hanly contacted Fr Daly at the Augustinian House in Ballyboden, inviting him to come on Morning Ireland the following morning to discuss the late Archbishop. He talked to Mgr Leo O'Sullivan OSA, the parish priest in Ballyboden who was also one of Archbishop McNamara's Vicars General (hence being unusual as being a monsignor in a religious order). Fr Daly was in two minds about going on as he had made it clear in the past that he disliked Archbishop McNamara. Mgr O'Sullivan said to him that David Hanly was using him, something Fr Daly hadn't considered - and that made up his mind. He didn't go on the programme, much to his credit. This is the bit that these liberal Catholics, whether priests, religious and laity, don't get. They take the exposure in the media as confirmation of the rightness of their cause. They don't get that the media are using them. Unless someone points it out. Have a look over the wikipedia entry on Gina Menzies, which looks very much like a CV, and you'll see what I mean. Useful idiots. What way does the old quote go: I think the latter are in "We are Church" in abundance. No sorry, nobody is in "We are Church" in abundance, but those who are read The Irish Times as if it were Gospel and Patsy McGarry was inspired. God help us.
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Post by hibernicus on Oct 11, 2015 19:25:24 GMT
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Post by hibernicus on Mar 5, 2019 21:35:28 GMT
Just a little reminder that this is the same group which recently sponsored Josepha Madigan's talk on women's ordination.
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