|  Author | Topic: The Association of Catholic Priests (Read 9,238 times) |
hibernicus
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|  | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #105 on Jun 9, 2012, 8:43am » | |
Not so far, at least not on their blog.
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #106 on Jun 10, 2012, 9:53am » | |
The love-fest for Sean O Conaill on the "spirit of Vatican II" continues on the ACPI blog. One commenter declares that Sean is not alone "we who continue to be inspired by the spirit of Vatican II are legion". Unfortunately he has not looked up the Gospel of Mark, chapter 5 to see who originally said "we are legion" and what were the effects inspired by that particular spirit. Any local swine had better watch out.
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....aill/#comment s
Paddy Ferry
June 9th, 2012 at 11:11 am
I want to thank Seán for his excellent piece above and also those who posted such supportive responses. I first became aware of Seán when he very successfully challanged Dave Pierre back in March and I initially assumed that he was a scholar priest he was so knowledgable. The Priest — response 9 — mentioning the current “toxic” nature of the Church that we all love certainly hit the nail on the head. I am convinced that the overwhelming majority of priests and laity think as we think in this present terrible time to be a Catholic. It is an absolute blessing that we have ACP to represent our views. In today’s Tablet Fr. Eddie Butler from Derrydruel Upper, just outside Dungloe — my part of the world — in Co. Donegal writes in support of the seven English priests responsible for last week’s open letter making a stand against the appalling direction our Church is now taking. He states that to his certain knowledge there are priests all over the world who share the same views and fears. He reminds us that we who continue to be inspired by the teachings of Vatican II “are legion”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+5&version=KJV
5 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
19 Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #107 on Jun 10, 2012, 9:57am » | |
The ACP are denouncing Archbishop Martin for not meeting them and engaging in "dialogue"; the ACP having made it abundantly clear that by "dialogue" they mean "agree with everything we say and don't dare answer back". Garry O'Sullivan has been making similar complaints about Archbishop MArtin of late in the IRISH CATHOLIC; I wonder is he working in tandem with the ACP?
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....t-with-the-acp/
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loughcrew
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #108 on Jun 12, 2012, 12:10am » | |
The neo-Crottyite Schism continues apace and it is surely only a matter of time before the ACP apply to Cantebury for ordinariate status within the Anglican communion.
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #109 on Jun 12, 2012, 8:22am » | |
For those not familiar with the story of the Crotty Schism in Birr, Co. Offaly in the 1820s, here is a link:
http://www.irishidentity.com/extras/clergy/stories/crotty.htm
Ven. Catherine McAuley and her Mercy nuns played a significant role in reconciling Crotty supporters to the Church.
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loughcrew
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #110 on Jun 13, 2012, 8:59pm » | |
The Crottyites received great encouragement from the newspapers of the time which were vehemently anti Catholic and anti nationalist in editorial thrust, another parallel to today perhaps.
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #111 on Jun 14, 2012, 10:47am » | |
The newspapers tended that way because the better-off were predominantly anti-Catholic, so that was where the money was. Plus ca change....
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #112 on Jun 19, 2012, 9:00am » | |
The ACPI blog has been full of complaints over the (leaked) report of Cardinal Dolan on the Irish College in Rome, and in particular on the fact that seminarians who complained about the way the College was being run were allowed to remain anonymous and were not obliged to confront the staff about whom they complained:
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....-rome/#comments
This comment on the relevant thread, by Fr Joseph O'Leary, an Irish priest stationed in Japan, unintentionally helps to explain why the complainants were allowed to remain anonymous:
EXTRACT
Joe O'Leary
June 16th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Cardinal Dolan is widely regarded as papabilie. Having made such an incredible mess of his seminary visitations, he is surely well equipped to deal with the Curia http://www.spiegel.de/international/euro....-a-8 38830.html
There is a fundamentalist breed on the rise in seminaries and any responsible bishop would encourage them to grow up rather than act on their immature complaints. Since Cardinal Dolan sees the staff of the Irish College over the last 35 years as defective, as well as the archbishops of Ireland who oversaw them, and since he also disapproves of some of the candidates lined up to replace them, perhaps he might consider handing the College over to Opus Dei?
END
In other words, Fr O'Leary is saying that seminarians who hold "conservative" or "fundamentalist" views have no right to express their concerns or have them taken into account. The mere fact that they hold "conservative" views is treated as a sign of immaturity (implying unfitness to be ordained) and there is an implicit suggestion that unless they "grow up" (i.e. adopt views identical with those held by Fr O'Leary and his pals) they should be disciplined in some unspecified manner.
I sincerely hope that none of the ex-staff of the Irish College held such arrogant and bigoted views as here expressed by Fr O'Leary, but the possibility that they might do so (and might be willing to abuse their power as teachers to penalise the expression of "conservative" views, as Fr O'Leary implies they should have done) is ample explanation for why it was necessary to guarantee them anonymity so that they could express themselves freely.
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loughcrew
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #113 on Jun 19, 2012, 8:09pm » | |
Fr. O'Leary comes across as the most illiberal of liberals, but he is in good company with ACPI fellow members.
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #114 on Jun 29, 2012, 11:05am » | |
The ACP (or at least its combox cheerleaders) go on record as believing it is unjust to penalise a priest just because, when saying Mass, he habitually extemporises the prayers as he goes along instead of sticking to the text of the liturgy
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....h-with-bishop /
Fr Zuhlsdorf's views on the same case,
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/02/priest-wh....ses-his-parish/
A commenter on Fr Z's blog points out an awkward passage in the decrees of that well-known assemblage of reactionaries, Vatican II, which condemns such extemporisation:
EXTRACT
Marcus der mit dem C says:
3 February 2012 at 1:31 pm
Sacrosanctum Concilium: 22. 3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
This passage of Vat. II seems to be rather unknown to a certain generation of priests. I was scolded by a priest at the sedilia, when I whispered to him , that he (I assumed at this moment accidently) recited the postcommunio of the sunday the week before. He told me not to interfere in his “right” of doing what he deems useful.
END
Will this stop the combox Aeolists on the ACP site from claiming they speak for "the spirit of Vatican II"? Not on your life.
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #115 on Jun 30, 2012, 8:25am » | |
In connection with the previous post: readers may be interested in seeing a few of the ACPI fan-club's comments on the case of the priest in Illinois disciplined for extemporising during Mass. I interject a few comments in [CAPITAL LETTERS]:
EXTRACTS
Mary O Vallely
June 28th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
He added a few words to make the liturgy “more meaningful” [ACCORDING TO HIMSELF. LET'S ALL GO INTO THE ART GALLERY WITH SPRAYCANS AND ALTER THE PAINTINGS TO MAKE THEM "MORE MEANINGFUL" WHENEVER WE FEEL LIKE IT]. He acted according to the Spirit within him. [THE EQUATION OF ONE'S OWN EMOTIONAL IMPULSES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS NEVER MORE CLEARLY STATED] He listened to the people [DID HE REALLY? OK, SOME OF THEM OBJECT TO HIS SUSPENSION, BUT OTHERS COMPLAINED, AND HE CLEARLY DIDN'T LISTEN TO THEM. WHAT EVIDENCE IS HERE THAT HE LISTENED TO ANYONE INSTEAD OF JUST ACTING AS HE FELT LIKE IT]and reacted from a compassionate heart, not like an automaton. [BUT WHAT HARM WOULD HE HAVE DONE BY STICKING TO THE TEXT?] Blind obedience is what we expect in a totalitarian state. [SO STICKING TO THE TEXT INSTEAD OF MAKING IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG IS BEING AN "AUTOMATON", AND PRACTISING "BLIND OBEDIENCE" TO "TOTALITARIANISM". HOW WOULD MS VALLELY LIKE IT IF A SHOP-ASSISTANT USED THIS ARGUMENT TO JUSTIFY GIVING HER SHORT CHANGE? NOTE SHE DOES NOT GIVE ANY SPECIFIC ARGUMENT ABOUT WHY HIS ACTION WAS JUSTIFIED - SHE JUST ASSUMES DISOBEDIENCE IS ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE THE RIGHT THING TO DO] There are a lot of priests who agree with him but lack his courage [OR HIS VANITY? SHE IS TREATING HIS ACTION AS A PROTEST AGAINST THE NEW TRANSLATION, BUT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION HE EXTEMPORISED FOR YEARS BEFORE IT WAS INTRODUCED] just as there are many, many teachers who agree with Trish Cameron (sacked for daring to say that personally she was in favour of same-sex relationships but wouldn’t bring these views into the classroom)but who haven’t the courage to speak out. Rigidity and absolutism must be questioned or we fail as Christ followers [SEZ SOMEBODY WHOSE REACTIONS ON ANY ISSUE ON THIS BLOG ARE AS PREDICTABLE AS A CUCKOO CLOCK]. IMHO. [SHE SHOULD LEAVE OUT THE H] Mary V
Perry-mason
June 28th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
I agree Mary.
God in heaven forbid someone in the congregation is moved by the Spirit to spontaneously proclaim, “Ave Maria gratia plena…. ora pro nobis.” [WOULD HE LIKE SOMEONE TO SPONTANEOUSLY YELL THE AVE IN HIS EAR WHEN HE WAS TALKING TO HIS CHILD OR WIFE, OR TRYING TO FIX THE ELECTRIC WIRE? THERE'S A TIME AND A PLACE. WOULD HE LIKE IT ANY MORE IF IT WAS NOT THE AVE BUT AN "IMPROVED" VERSION YELLED BY SOMEONE WHO THOUGHT HIS VERSION WAS BETTER AND SHOULD BE IMPOSED ON EVERYONE IN EARSHOT?]
I am sure even that wouldn’t quiet the Latin and Rubrics brigade. [WHOSE VIEWS YOU DO NOT BOTHER TO DEBATE.]
I was just reading a letter from a priest in prison in Illinois and his asking about having Mass. How the others, Baptists, Menonites etc all had their weekly visits. But he was left to it.
Widows, orphans and visiting those in prison. The things Jesus will look to having been done. [WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH THE EXTEMPORE MASSES?]
And this lovely man is chastised for giving voice to the very Spirit. [ONCE AGAIN THE HOLY
Let’s start a petition. SPIRIT IS EQUATED WITH "MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG"]
Or if anyone finds one online – link and we can add our signatures.
Power to the people – and the Spirit.
[WHICH SPIRIT? - Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing on his right and on his left. And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?' "One suggested this, and another that.Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' "'By what means?' the LORD asked."'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. "'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.' "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you." 2 Chronicles 18: 18-22]
And to those who might be worried – my confirmation name isn’t ‘Free’.
Jo Siedlecka
...
June 28th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
This kind of behaviour on the part of some persons in authority [SUCH AS FR. ROWE] has always been a constant in the church. The difference is that nowadays it is being exposed to public view, so everyone gets to see what consequences a belief in absolute power and absolute truth can lead to... [HASN'T IT OCCURRED TO THIS PERSON THAT ABSOLUTE TRUTH ACTS AS A BULWARK AGAINST ABSOLUTE POWER? AND IF HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ABSOLUTE TRUTH, DOES HE BELIEVE IN THE LAW OF GRAVITY?]
END OF EXTRACTS
Finally, some thoughts on why extemporisation in Mass is wrong and why these people appear to be so het up in its defence:
The Faith is found not made; its expressions may change but should do so after due process and by due authority. By extemporising the Mass whenever he feels like it, even if we assume for the sake of argument that no question of invalidity is involved, Fr Rowe is behaving as if the Mass and the Faith are something which he himself makes up and can alter at his own sweet will without any thought for anyone else (including the congregation). The Aeolists on the ACPI blog rally to his defence because they cannot bear the thought that their subjectivity might ever be restrained in matters of faith.
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....shop /#comments
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #116 on Jul 11, 2012, 4:55am » | |
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....ation/#comments
The ACPI's lay associates are setting up a lay association which will work in tandem with the ACPI, and some of them are already speaking of it as an "umbrella association" which will represent all lay Catholics. It certainly doesn't represent me.
What they mean, of course, is that it will unify groups such as Voice of the faithful, We Are Church etc etc etc which claim to represent Catholic lay opinion as a whole in Ireland, just like the Trots claim to represent the working people,
EXTRACT
Des Gilroy
July 9th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Mary Wood (July 7th) asks the question – is it another case of us and them? Let’s be positive and say that the two groups, operating in a spirit of togetherness but independently, avoids the accusation of one group being dominated by the other. The new group is to be welcomed as it will give an independent voice to the lay baptised. Its independence will allow it to focus on developments in the Church from a lay perspective as distinct from the ACP which will continue to represent the views of the ordained. Additionally, the ACP will want to deal with specific issues which are particular to the welfare of priests and they should be allowed the independence to do so with discretion.
The relationship of the new lay body with the ACP should be similar to that between brother and sister – of the same family, working closely together with the same objectives but facing some issues from different viewpoints based on different experiences and requirements. There are a number of groups currently speaking for the lay Catholic. This umbrella group will hopefully make the lay voice stronger in the Church by unifying these groups. United we stand, divided we fall. Hopefully Mary will go along to an introduction meeting in her area and will then have an opportunity through the new group to make her contribution to promoting the word of God.
END
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #117 on Jul 16, 2012, 9:21am » | |
Quite recently a survivor of clerical abuse signing himself "Kevin" has published a statement on the ACPI blog in which he describes how his experience (including hearing his abuser described as a "holy priest" and having complaints dismissed out of hand) has left him with a phobia towards priests. HE asks whether it would be possible for the Church to issue some sort of "dispensation" allowing reception of the sacraments to be independent of priests.
I do not wish to say anything about KEvin's own comments, except that they are truly heartrending and should bring home to everyone the harm done by clerical abuse and its cover-up, how futile and superficial it is to say "let's move on", and how much we need to pray for those whose relationship with God and His Church has been warped and shattered by these abominations.
What is noticeable here is the response of some of the pro-ACPI comments (including Sean O Conaill of Voice of the Faithful Ireland). They suggest that ALL the sacraments can be administered by laity to one another with no need of priests; that the sacraments can be altered or dispensed with altogether; that the answer to Kevin's problems would be to have women priests (apparently assuming women are incapable of abuse); even that he should go to the Church of Ireland because it has female ministers.
One gets the distinct impression from some of these comments that the authors can never have had any idea of how the Sacraments work to bind the Church together, but see them just as some sort of external ritual. (I might add that they do not seem to pay much attention to lay prayer/devotional groups, though this may be partly because such groups usually have priests as members or chaplains.)
I chose to post this here rather than on the Scandals thread because it would be unjust to the ACP not to acknowledge that some of their vagaries do spring from the perpetration and cover-up of these utter horrors which strike at the very root of the sacramental life, and that however problematic their proposed solutions may be the ACPI are at least trying to address this. IF we want to provide an alternative solution to the nostrums of the ACPI we must acknowledge what has been done to victims like Kevin and try to address it in prayer and by other means:
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....owards-healing/
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....n-sexual-abuse/
EXTRACT (from comments on first post)
Sean O'Conaill
June 24th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Kevin’s own journey has surely made him uniquely qualified to advise church leaders on how to develop an effective ministry to people like himself – those who want to move beyond anger and back to some meaningful relationship with Jesus and their native church. I haven’t seen anything published yet in Ireland that so well describes the spiritual obstacles to a healing relationship with the church.
I am no expert on this, but what I have read about the history of the Catholic sacraments suggests strongly that they didn’t arrive in their present form in the earliest church. They evolved gradually, and it wasn’t until the second millennium that the church settled on the present set of seven.
Doesn’t that suggest the possibility that the sacramental repertoire of the church could evolve further, to cater for the kind of problem that Kevin so well describes?
What effort has the ICBC made so far to consult with abuse survivors on the kind of issue that Kevin addresses here? What thinking has been done about the possibility of new models of ministry to cater for the situation? Surely some of the counsellors involved in what was Faoiseamh and is now ‘Towards Healing’ will have encountered the kind of problem that Kevin describes, and done some creative thinking about it? Couldn’t they learn more from Kevin?
I’ll keep Kevin in prayer anyway, and pray that he himself could become a recognised instrument in the healing of others. He has somehow crossed many chasms of suffering into the land of forgiveness, so God must surely have some ministry in mind for him. Isn’t this what ‘discernment’ is all about?
END OF EXTRACT
EXTRACTS (from comments on second post)
Gabriel Martin
July 2nd, 2012 at 8:19 pm
Take it out of their hands altogether. They’ve dropped the baton. Sean O’Connell appears to me to be an ideal person to answer Kevin’s questions. Is the ordained priest and essential element of the celebration of Christ’s commemoration meal? Cannot the Eucharist be celebrated by and in the presence of people who obviously understand the pain that abused people have endured. Why perpetuate their pain? So get together and celebrate the Eucharist. Do this in remembrance of me. Jesus would not have pain perpetuated. “My yoke is sweet and my burden is light”.
Gabriel.
...
Paul Burns
July 2nd, 2012 at 11:36 pm
You may find it helpful to talk to an ordained female minister in Church of Ireland.
Patrick T. Darcy
July 3rd, 2012 at 2:04 am
Dear Kevin,
There is a dispensation from the need for priests in the spiritual life of a Roman Catholic. That dispensation is called conscience. Conscience is above canon law. I would refer you to the second edition of the Catechism of the Church: part three, article 6: moral conscience.
Even with all that you have suffered, it is evident that you remain a man of faith in God. If a sacramental encounter with Christ is hindered by a priest who triggers recollections of abuse, then you do not need any canonical dispensation. As the Catechism states, you know what is just and right, so follow your conscience.
To put it bluntly, forget about the official church responding to your spiritual needs. Remember these leaders from whom you seek a dispensation are the very enablers of the priests who abused you and so many other innocent children. The bishop who asked what more could be done since the bishops have apologized for the abuse and cover-up is reflective of a mindset that still doesn’t get it. Guys like him will never get it.
I hope that you can find other survivors who can support one another, and I think that it is critical that you have someone who has the spiritual and psychological skills to facilitate your conservations and healing.
I pray for you and other survivors. Trust the Lord and yourself.
END OF EXTRACTS
And lest indignation at these statements obscure the way in which clerical abuse does the Devil's work in poisoning the means by which we approach God:
EXTRACT
Kevin
July 4th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
No Patrick I have not said, suggested or implied, nor do I believe that the priest administering the sacrament is in any way understood in a negative light, or the sacrament itself indeed.
I will give an example of a post traumatic stress event in the ‘confessional’ again, fairly recently. This happened not three years ago.
I was trying to read again about the Catholic faith. I was visiting a monastery – taking some relatives who wished to avail of confession before travelling to England. I was sitting waiting and an elderly priest walked past me sitting there and asked if I’d like to go to confession, if I were waiting for that. I wondered if it might be a hint from above – the reluctant mister gullible. I thought it would do no harm to avail of this now, newly named ‘sacrament of reconciliation’ – and I was wanting to reconcile. Christ reconciles all things to Himself, we are told.
I went into the room and sat with the man. I was not in ten minutes till I had to almost run out and slam the door after me. I was trying to relate some of my past experience and why it was difficult for me in the process of seeking reconciliation with the past, present and the ‘Church’. Before hearing anything I had really to say, or being told the outcome of a certain situation with the abusing priest in my past, which did end in true reconciliation, I was told in no uncertain terms that I was full of hate, consumed by it in fact, and had absolutely no desire or capacity to forgive – and some other things I won’t go into. I felt like I was Lucifer incarnate. And anyone knows me knows how far that is from the truth.
I came out of the room and stood, violently shaking from my head to my feet and wanting to vomit. I thought at one point I was going to go into a convulsion. I’ve been with many people in the past convulsing and that’s why I believed my own body might actually convulse at that point. It really did ‘trigger’ such a violent reaction in my mind and my body. A woman who worked there saw the state I was in and asked me to sit and have a cup of tea. I couldn’t sit – I had to get out of that place and away from those people.
But I was shaking so much the woman convinced me that if I got into the car I’d crash and kill myself and/or someone else.
And at that moment part of me wanted, after these seemingly endless abuses and betrayals, to do just that – drive that car off some bridge and be done with all of it once and for all. The only way to be rid of this RCC that permeates so much of our beings to our cores.
I soon learned, from my own past training and experience, observing this man again before I left the place – that he was not well. I was correct and it was sorted in time.
I later went to see a psychologist friend and explained this to her. She said it was post traumatic stress and a real re traumatising and abuse. I should have taken them to court and cleaned them out.
But instead I made sure that sick priest was taken care of. I did it – not the ones supposedly looking after him, cause they were not trained and had no clue how to.
I asked my friend about the anger I felt. That if I were a ‘violent person’ I might have hit that man so hard I could have killed him.
She explained how I internalised the anger – what I had learned to do, compounded by church teaching, when hurt ‘must forgive’- and that that accounted for my thinking to drive off a bridge in the immediate aftermath. Rather than externalise the anger and hurt the priest – I internalised and would have hurt my self more, or self destructed.
The entire experience was a triggering event to past abuse in the ‘sacrament’al experience – confessional in this instance, as well as others more recent to that time – re abuse, re trauma and could have ended in disaster. My body was reacting to years of trauma – not just that one event.
That man was not well, elderly and vulnerable in his own right, and should never ever have been left in a position with the potential to harm others, or himself.
So the ‘vulnerable’ clerics are not being adequately cared for as well as the some times highly vulnerable members of their congregations.
Who in their right minds would expect anyone to expose themselves to that level of danger again, in or outside some ‘sacrament of reconciliation’.
I am growing more convinced that as Catholics we suffer something akin to “Battered Wife Syndrome.”
Trying to escape an abusive partner, spouse, who beats the crap out of us, promises never to do so again, apologises profusely and makes no real effort to change the real heart of the problem.
I have no issue with all the good priests, or sacraments – but people should not be put in danger, especially vulnerable people and that is part of the remit of “Towards Healing.” If I’d been someone else who externalised anger – someone could have been killed that day. That is a FACT, the potential for the REALISTIC outcome of such events.
That’s post traumatic stress and triggering.
If people can be helped to feel safe again in any of that – well and good.
That permanent exit door is getting closer by the day however.
And the medical analogy is beyond ridiculous, and shows, apart from lack of intelligence, lack of the remotest understandings of what this is about and the seriousness of it.
We’ll see.
END OF EXTRACT
Read what Kevin has to say, and pray for him and the others like him
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Christ is the morning star who when the night of this world is past brings to his saints the promise of the light of life and opens everlasting day |
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #118 on Jul 24, 2012, 9:02am » | |
The post linked below was recently put up on the ACPI website. The author is arguing for change in the rules of clerical celibacy. This would be IMHO legitimate were it not for two things:
(1) The author calls for local bishops to ordain married men in direct defiance of the Vatican - i.e. he is issuing a call to schism
(2) The blog describes him as "a married priest in Recife, Brazil". It should be made clear whether he is a priest who has been laicised in order to marry, or whether he is carrying on an independent ministry without canonical authority.
Given the first of these, and if the second alternative in (2) is correct, why is a group professing to be Catholic carrying his views on their website?
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.....____/# comments
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Christ is the morning star who when the night of this world is past brings to his saints the promise of the light of life and opens everlasting day |
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hibernicus
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| | Re: The Association of Catholic Priests
« Reply #119 on Jul 24, 2012, 9:05am » | |
A little note - the ACPI recently complained about the Vatican investigating certain rumours about the Irish College which I will not particularise further in this forum, declaring the rumours to be unjust, baseless and slanderous.
When the ACPI held their "Towards an Assembly" etc meeting in Dublin some time back, "Bishop" Pat Buckley was allowed to attend and treated as a legitimate participant.
"Bishop" Pat Buckley has been openly promoting the very rumours against which the ACP protest on his blog. Why is he being treated more respectfully than the Vatican in this matter?
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Christ is the morning star who when the night of this world is past brings to his saints the promise of the light of life and opens everlasting day |
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